LOOKING TO PRAISE AND WORSHIP JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. 18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

Tuesday, May 27, 2008

Lou Martuneac on the GES' Contribution to the Lordship Debate

The following I have cut and paste from the comments thread at Jonathan Moorhead's blog-post "Am I A Heretic?". Lou Martuneac was the author of this gem. It made me smile.

"PS: Reminder to any readers here. When any GES faction person addresses LS, be mindful that he/she is speaking from an extremist position that is NOT accepted by balanced Bible-believing people in the FG community. The GES’s Crossless gospel presuppositions, IMO negate those who hold to it from any meaningful contribution to a discussion of Lordship Salvation."


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Blogger Lou Martuneac said...

Hi Mark:

I wrote an article that addressed and expanded on that abbreviated comment I wrote for Morehead’s thread. It is titled, Wilkin & Hodges: No Longer Relevant…

The article names several additional Crossless gospel advocates as well. I believe I wrote that more fully explains this, but I'm not sure and will see if I can find it, if it exists.


May 27, 2008 7:51 AM

Blogger Lou Martuneac said...

Let me illustrate why I am drawing a distinction between the GES and the balance of FG pastors/teachers in regard to the discussion of LS.

What if you men, who are Reformed in your theology, had a group/individual in your camp addressing Arminianism, but they also held to a Hyper-Calvinism and Double-Predestination position? Would you be uncomfortable if those men were speaking as though they were speaking on behalf all men in Reformed circles? Would you be uncomfortable if those men (Hyper-Calvinists, Double Predestination) were giving the impression that their extreme views were representative of what true Reformed theology stands for?

I think you get an idea of why many of us squirm when GES/Crossless gospel advocates give the false impression that their REDEFINED Free Grace extremism is representative of the whole of Free Grace theology.

I don’t mind (too much) when the Crossless advocates mention why they disagree with LS. The problem begins when they offer what they believe is the answer to LS.


May 27, 2008 8:35 AM

Blogger jazzycat said...

Free grace has no stronger expression than from those who believe in the doctrines of grace as expressed by the acrostic TULIP. This position credits everything to God in salvation through the doctrine of adoption. Since eternal security is one of the doctrines of grace, it can be said without exception that BY DEFINTION it is impossible for any works of merit to count toward justification. If works are added to make it possible for a person to be saved (justified) you are no longer talking about reformed theology of the TULIP. Reformed theology precludes works in its very foundational statements. Even the faith to believe is a gift in reformed theology. Lordship salvation is a bogus and untrue term when applied to the reformed doctrine of justification!

May 27, 2008 5:36 PM

Blogger Jonathan Moorhead said...

That is a goodie! Mark, thanks for your contributions at the Moor.

May 27, 2008 10:25 PM

Blogger mark pierson said...

Thanks for the visit, Lou, Wayne and Jonathan.

May 28, 2008 7:38 AM

Blogger jazzycat said...

Good comment this morning over at the Moor. FG theology seems to see believers where the Bible is clearly talking about unbelievers. The latest is Antonio's mention of 2 Tim 2:12....

May 28, 2008 8:32 AM

Blogger mark pierson said...


My son is going in to school late today, 5/29, in order to finish a report. That means he has the computer all day today, meaning I don't.

Hopefully I'll be back tomorrow, 5/30.

May 29, 2008 6:55 AM

Blogger Lou Martuneac said...


JP wrote an article titled, Consistent Free Grace Evangelism?

This is a must read!


May 30, 2008 12:38 PM

Blogger mark pierson said...

Lou, I'll check it out later. Right now I gotta get my bluecollar butt of to my second shift job. Thanks for the link. Say, how did you post this comment fron Pitt. PA? I thought you were from Chicago.

May 30, 2008 1:10 PM

Blogger Lou Martuneac said...


You need to reboot your tracker.


May 30, 2008 2:52 PM

Blogger Lou Martuneac said...

It has been my privilege to have known Dr. Lance Ketchum since 2002. He is well known in IFB circles through his ministry of Evangelism, Revival, Church Planting. He is a prolific writer on many important theological discussions.

He has just written an article that looks at the historical context of the current debates over the one true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You and your guests may like to read The Evolution of Soteriological Reductionism for a thorough and scholarly review of the history of how men have come to arrive at a Crossless gospel.


June 04, 2008 3:12 PM


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