Well, Which Is It?
The Kingdom:
Now and not yet
Or
Entirely future
posted by mark pierson at 8:23 AM
Wednesday, June 20, 2007
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15 Comments:
Have fun here, and be nice. (I guess that goes doubly for me) :-)
June 20, 2007 8:27 AM
The United Kingdom of Great Britain is now and will last forever.
June 20, 2007 8:28 AM
Matthew, my last name is Pierson, of British decent. After the War of 1812, and going into the present, the Brits have been the Yankee's greatest ally.
Live long and prosper!
June 20, 2007 8:36 AM
I vote for now and not yet....
One people of God. One way to salvation. One destiny for the elect. One destiny for the non-elect. One second coming. Believers= true Israel= elect. All Israel will be saved= all the elect will be saved in Rom. 11. One church.
Please don't ask me to prove anything, but this is what I think the N.T. teaches.
June 20, 2007 8:46 AM
"Now and not yet" for me...
June 20, 2007 10:27 AM
What about the Already, the Now, and the Not Yet?
I read this proposed in a post-mill book, and I tend to agree with that.
The Already - Christ's accomplished work in death, resurrection, ascention, and I believe coronation. He reigns.
The Now - adding daily to His kingdom
The Yet to Come - Second Coming, final judgment, etc.
June 20, 2007 10:34 AM
God's sovereign rule is eternal.
But the mediatorial kingdom rule of Christ is entirely future.
June 20, 2007 10:39 AM
Well, so far it is 3 to 1, now and not yet.
Matthew, what about NT evidence that it is also now?
June 20, 2007 10:44 AM
Jazzycat, who is ruled in these texts?
Dan 7
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Rev 11
15 ΒΆ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 2
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
June 20, 2007 10:49 AM
I don't believe there be any.
June 20, 2007 10:50 AM
Matthew,
I'm of Welsh descent.
Have you heard of a song called There's No England Anymore?
I heard it on a conservative radio show here (Michael Savage). There's a clip that plays the song on YouTube.
June 20, 2007 10:57 AM
Matthew,
I was reading in RC Sproul's The Last Days According to Jesus in which he puts forth the possibilty that if the book of Revelation was written prior to 70 AD, much of it could well apply to the destruction of the temple, the persecution of the early church, and the end of the Jewish Age. His arguments (actually the works of others which Sproul puts forth as cogent, worthy of consideration) for the sixth king of Rev 17:7-17 being Nero is thought-provoking. If true, this adds weight to the argument for dating the book in the mid- to late-sixties, which would lend credence, in my mind, to John's writings having greater relevance to his immediate audience, not one thousands of years hence.
June 20, 2007 11:03 AM
Now and Not Yet, that's my vote.
June 20, 2007 1:31 PM
Welsh, English, yes... I see. If this is an exercise tapping into our ancestral roots, Puerto Rico never had a kingdom, so I would have to say entirely future. The climate is too warm to wear one of those mink stoles. I'm pretty sure that's the main reason PR hasn't established a kingdom. ;-)
But if this is talking about the Kingdom of Heaven, (a.k.a. the Kingdom of God,) I'm inconcensus with the previous comments. I must say now AND not yet.
June 20, 2007 3:14 PM
Now and not yet, or (if you prefer) I am in the kingdom in eternity, which includes "now".
Likewise, I am crucified with Christ both now and 2000 years ago, and I have eternal life both now and will have it later. Creation is superimposed upon eternity, and what is true in eternity is the "big" truth, and what is true in creation only reflects that bigger truth. Was I saved before the foundation of the world? Yes, that has always been true, but creation only reflected that truth according to a spatial, chronological reflection of the "higher order" reality. We can't see past creation, but we have been told these things are true, and true they are - even if we are not experiencing them in some tangible, concrete way.
June 22, 2007 12:37 PM
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