LOOKING TO PRAISE AND WORSHIP JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. 18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

Tuesday, July 31, 2007

The Good, The Bad & The Ugly

At another blog, I've been involved in a discussion on whether or not people are inherently 'good' or inherently 'bad.' The blog shall remain nameless because... well...mainly because I just don't operate that way. Perhaps the guy who suggested we "move this discussion to a Calvinist site" will find this. Who knows. But for anyone else who might stumble in here and read the truth, it'll be a good thing.

I simply cannot tell you how grieved my heart has been over the last couple of days, from reading the many commments from the many people who believe that we are inherently good. What's even more frightening is that no one used Scripture and hardly anyone engaged me in the Scripture that I put forth. Actually, no one even mentioned the passages.

My first comment in the post:

The best place to seek the answer to the question, I think, is Scripture.

...Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:5

The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done. Gen 8:21

as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." Rom 3:10-12

...for examples.

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Rom 5:10

Not only are we 'bad' in the sense that we are wretched sinners, we are God's enemies. That is, unless and until He graciously saves us. In our sinful state, no one seeks God, but in His mercy, He pursues those whom He'll save.As far as nurture goes, I don't think any parent teaches his child to bite, hit, scream for what it wants, etc,etc. Yet amazingly, older babies/toddlers do just that. Their selfish, self-centered natures are not taught, but inborn. This IS the essence of original sin.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned Rom 5:12

For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. Rom 5:19


Some people commented that a checklist was required to determine if we're good or bad, some said we've not lived up to the promising possibilities. Some said we're good because everything God creates/created is good. One said to look at babies and and then tell her if that baby is inherently good or bad. And - what kind of Son of God would call inherently bad people His friends? Then there was the ole age of accountability thing, and orginial sin lies dormant until this time. It gets worse, and it is deeply troubling.

My last comment:

_____, I'm not going to address your first paragraph above, as we are in complete disagreement on it, and that's not the subject of ____'s post. Perhaps another time.You've mentioned 'staring at the tree of knowledge of good and evil' twice now. Forgive me, but that sounds very "spiritualized" and I have no idea what it truly means. I don't think good and evil are mysteries at all. The Bible is replete with Scripture that tells us exactly what they are and what we are. I've already listed references in my previous comments.

Here's another one even:

The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it? Jer 17:9

Witnessing the murder/suicide must have been horrific experience for you. I can't even imagine. But it is really no mystery - She murdered because she was a sinful, fallen human being.

again, ....for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; Gen 8:21

and ...and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:5

Do a search on the word, 'wicked' and you'll find the Scriptures full of references to man's wickedness.

See, we don't need a Savior because we're fragile or we have weakened wills, or we need our inherently good natures strengthened. We need a Savior because we are unholy, unrighteous, sinful, wicked human beings, who in everything we are and everything we do, transgress against the holy, righteous God of the universe. We are dead in our transgressions, we are God's ENEMIES! We don't have a chance unless He saves us. We really must recognize who we are before Him, throw ourselves upon the cross and beg His mercy on us. And when He does save our souls, only then are we righteous in His eyes because of the imputed righteousness of Christ that He mercifully imparts to us.

Please hear me again. I am NOT saying that God's creations aren't good. Clearly they are/were. Because of Adam's disobedience, however, we've inhereited a sinful nature, therefore we desperately need God's salvation in order to be reconcilled to Him. I don't ask you to take my word for it on all this, I'd ask you search the Scriptures on it for yourselves.

21 Comments:

Blogger Scribe said...

Gayla,
You win hands down. Scripture (and God) is on your side. ;D

July 31, 2007 9:12 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Gayla,
That is masterful post backed with solid Scripture.........

Empirical evidence is also on your side. I wonder how many of those people that believe that folly leave their doors unlocked at night? I wonder how many would go strolling after dark in any major American inner-city? Look at the problems with drugs, alcohol, porn, gangs, divorce, child abuse, crime, and on and on.... If man is born basically good, why do we have all these problems?

July 31, 2007 9:47 PM

 
Blogger Scribe said...

Man is so wicked I firmly believe in the right to bear arms...

July 31, 2007 10:07 PM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

I bear arms - two of 'em.'

(hey, my post is serious)

July 31, 2007 10:15 PM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

Jazzy, thank you. I'm not often 'grieved' over the happenings and discussions at the various blogs. Anger is the normal emotion.

But this, this really got to me.

July 31, 2007 10:28 PM

 
Blogger Susan said...

Gayla,
Rest in the knowledge that the word of God doesn't return void, and that what you did in sharing what those passages was open the door for the Holy Spirit to speak to them if He so wills.
There's nothing more you can do.
However, I would add this one thing. There's a knitting blog that I used to frequent(non-Christian - actually a knitting blog, but hosted by a gay male). With a gay host, the comments (although not obscene) were a lot more crude than I was comfortable with, but every now and then I would offer something other than the normal fare of that blog.
I think the last time I commented there was when the host wondered in a post why Christians feared gays. I had to comment that of course we do not fear gays, we fear God. And I explained more about it, but in the end, I could see that there was such hostility toward me and really anger at some of what I was putting forth, that it just came time for me to leave and never go back.
I used to frequent a lot more knitting blogs, since it's a hobby of mine, but I'm realizing that even those - secular all - have varying degrees of sin that are intolerable to me now.
I say all this just to offer that sometimes it may be better not to go to blogs or expose yourself to what you know not to be truth.
Yes, we can witness and speak the truth in love at these places, but I truly wonder about the efficacy or wisdom in doing so. So much is missing in on-line communication (nuance, gesture, length of time and comment, understanding of background and personal history, etc.)
God can certainly use us on-line, but, well, I wouldn't want your soul to be too troubled by these on-line engagements. At any rate, it's not up to you - it's up to God. So don't fret. That's unScriptural as well.

July 31, 2007 11:04 PM

 
Blogger Antonio said...

"The Will of God is Necessity" (Institutes II.xxiii.8)
(Helpless, Hopeless, yet Unpitiable)

Born blind and reprobate
Hell can be my only fate
Heaven reserved for those God chose
Why I have no chance, God only knows

Born blind and deaf to the gospel of grace
To my life, Christ in His death hid His face
For God so loved the world, that Jesus died only to save some
How can this be a gracious offer that disingenuously bids me to come?

Born blind and dead from my mother's womb
I am to glorify God by my certain doom
God has arranged and disposed of me at His pleasure
He has created me as an object of His wrath and not His treasure

Born blind in sin, I did not ask to be born
Unlike Paul for his brethren, For me God does not mourn
I have been chosen for hell in the secret counsel of His all-encompassing decree
When I am gone, there will be no memory of me

----------

Man was created in the image and likeness of God. Obviously this is not talking about physical features. Men are able to love with agape love, even sinners and publicans! (Matt 5:46; Luke 6:32 SEE GREEK) Men reason, do moral and just things, even not having the Mosaic or any God-given written law:

Rom 2:14-15
... for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

Can you notice here that they "by nature" do the things in the law? This is due to the moral image and likeness of God in which they were created in.

Man has the constitutional ability to believe. Do you not believe things? Is every belief a conviction imposed by God? Man has the communicable attributes of God! We are fearfully and wonderfully created and endowed by our Maker! The false doctrine of total inability to believe Christ's message is a teaching straight from the pit.

Christ died for sinners. He took the barrier of sin out of the way. Why is there such elaborate testimony to how one receives eternal life, by faith in Christ, if this is impossible? There can be no good answers.

With Paul, I say to sinners:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!" (Acts 16:31)

But the soteriology of a Calvinist goes like this:

Lam 3:26
It is good that one should hope and wait quietly
For the salvation of the LORD.

The majority of humanity will be waiting in vain. God is pleased to desroy them; the have been created to be damned.

Yes, the reprobate will be waiting in vain.

The Bible conclusively shows that unregenerate man seeks God. I see that noone is willing to pose any arguments against the plain and normal reading of Cornelius and the Bereans.

Acts 10:1-3, 4
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius! ...Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God."

Acts 17:10-12
Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Therefore many of them believed.

Acts 17:26-28
And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth... so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Cornelius was not yet born again. However, he did fear God and work righteousness:

Acts 10:1-2
Cornelius [was] a devout man and one who feared God… who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always.

Cornelius feared God (text explicitly says that) and worked righteousness (he gave alms generously to the people). He fulfilled Acts 10:35 and as a result this unbeliever was accepted (see what I mean by this below) by God. He was seeking after God and praying that he might be shown the way. Cornelius diligently sought the Lord and prayed to God to show him how he might be saved:

Cross-reference:

Acts 10:30-31
Cornelius said, "Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, and said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered in the sight of God.

with

Acts 11:13-14
And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, 'Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.'

According to my biblical view, people in any nation can seek God and incite Him to send them the good news of Jesus Christ whereby they can and will be saved. It is in this way that they are “accepted” by God.

For a great treatment on Acts 10:35, see Bob Wilkin’s article in the Grace Evangelical Society’s Newsletter Can Unbelievers Seek God and work Righteousness?

God will reward the unsaved who diligently seek Him by bringing them the gospel message whereby they will be saved.

Cornelius is a vivid illustration of this principle!

August 01, 2007 12:11 AM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Antonio,
I would not mind taking on the verses you give, but your history with me is one of assert a doctrinal point, accuse, misrepresent, slander, and then punt (run).

Your theological foundation is faulty and that causes your conclusions on nearly everything to be faulty as well.

That is why you assert that a person can believe that the Muslim God Allah is the only true God, the trinity is fiction, the Koran is truth, Jesus is a lesser god than Allah, humans are gods than Jesus, and yet still be saved if they simply believe that Jesus guarantees eternal life.

Are you going to add to this list the assertion that man is born basically good?

August 01, 2007 8:10 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Gayla - An EXCELLENT post!!!

Antonio, up to your Pelagian ways again?! Gayla's post points out quite accurately that man is a slave to sin, a God hater who recoils at the thought of having to live as his Holy creator would have him. Unless God regenerates that person he will go on to hate God and serve his sinful cravings. See John 3:19-21.

Cornelius provides us with a great picture of God's working in an individual as seen in John 6:37-40, 44-47, 62-65:

Cornelius was given to Christ by the Father, 6:37,39.

Cornelius was drawn to Christ by the Father, verse 44, and taught by God, verse 45.

Cornelius was in the process of hearing and learning from the Father, 45, and on course to come to Christ, as we see inevitably happens to one so taught by God.

Cornelius provides such a beautiful picture of one lost slave of sin, whose life is interupted by God's redeeming love, else he would have gone on to a Christless eternity.

August 01, 2007 8:10 AM

 
Blogger Baptist Girl said...

Gayla,
Very, Very well said!
It really really bothers me that anyone can have the adousity to think they first seek Him, that they are somewhat good.

IT'S GOD WORKING IN YOU -

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Psalms 37:23 The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

Psa 100:3 Know ye that the LORD he [is] God: [it is] he [that] hath made us, and not we ourselves; [we are] his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Proverbs 20:24 Man's goings [are] of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Isaiah 26:12-13 12 LORD, You will establish peace for us, For You have also done all our works in us. 13 O LORD our God, masters besides You Have had dominion over us; But by You only we make mention of Your name.

Isaiah 46:3-4 3 "Listen to Me, O house of Jacob, And all the remnant of the house of Israel, Who have been upheld by Me from birth, Who have been carried from the womb: 4 Even to your old age, I am He, And even to gray hairs I will carry you! I have made, and I will bear; Even I will carry, and will deliver you.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 26 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Luke 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished from their sight.

1Cor 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

1Cor 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

2Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God;

Hebrews 13:20-21 20 Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

Pro 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Matthew 7:16-18 16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

1Cor 4:7 For who made you better than your brother? or what have you that has not been given to you? but if it has been given to you, what cause have you for pride, as if it had not been given to you?

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

Cristina

August 01, 2007 8:40 AM

 
Blogger Susan said...

Cristina,
Welcome home!
Your were covered in prayer during your time away...

August 01, 2007 9:32 AM

 
Blogger Scribe said...

Woot, woot for Cristina being back!!!! ;D

August 01, 2007 10:28 AM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

"Man was created in the image and likeness of God. Obviously this is not talking about physical features. Men are able to love with agape love, even sinners and publicans! (Matt 5:46; Luke 6:32 SEE GREEK) Men reason, do moral and just things, even not having the Mosaic or any God-given written law:"

I don't deny this, Antonio. There are a zillion examples God's common grace upon mankind. He restrains evil and withholds His wrath. The saved and unsaved, alike, enjoy the provisions of God. They love their spouses, love their children, do 'good works' etc. The ability to do any of it comes from God.

The question was, are we inherently good or bad? Translated, are we born with a sin nature or not? The Bible is clear that we're inherently evil. The answer is, that through Adam we indeed inherited a sin nature.

Perhaps you'd like to say something about the verses from Genesis??

August 01, 2007 10:36 AM

 
Blogger Craver Vii said...

All this discussion about the good and the bad, but you have neglected the ugly. I feel slighted.

August 01, 2007 1:12 PM

 
Blogger Gojira said...

Here goes the ugly for ya Craver:

Antonia,

Do you think the next time you honor us with a poem, do you think you can give us something more than just a peas-porridge-hot rhyme structure. I would have expected a little more from one like yourself so proficient with words.
*****************************

"Men are able to love with agape love, even sinners and publicans! "

And? Does that automatically mean that they use that love in the way it is supposed to be used? No Calvinist denies this scripture. Once again, you show you do not understand your opponents. So what else is new? Nothing.
****************************

"Rom 2:14-15
... for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,"

Indeed, and if you notice the context, you would see that Paul is using this to build his argument that all, both Jew and Greek are under the law, that one does not have to have the law to be condemned by it. Your argument here is shared by your spiritual pelagianistic kin -- the Roman Catholic. That you fail to grasp this, is nothing new.
*************************

I would go more into your post, but there is no point. Other than that, please work on your poetry. Or did you steal it by copy and paste?

August 01, 2007 3:02 PM

 
Blogger Antonio said...

Doug,

you are an all around nasty person and your heart is full of meanness, just like your capricious and arbitrary god

over and out

August 01, 2007 4:12 PM

 
Blogger Gojira said...

Hi Antonia,

Thank you! :-) It's the pot calling the kettle black, but thank ya!
******************************
"Cornelius was not yet born again. However, he did fear God and work righteousness:

Acts 10:1-2
Cornelius [was] a devout man and one who feared God… who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always."

Yes. Indeed. And do you somehow think that happened apart from the goodness and grace of God? Romans 1-3 shows how the whole world is under sin, that none seek God. The epistle goes on to teach that all humanity, being under sin, is at enmity with God. In Eph. 2 we are taught of how we are dead before God, that we do not have his life, being seperated from Him. Your graceless system creates a usless contradiction between Acts 10 and the remainder of scripture. Oh and by the way, just where in Acts 10 did Peter say "just believe that Jesus guarentees eternal life for all who simply believe in Him for it"? We do not find that particular grammatical construction. Perhaps Peter wasn't a Free Grace extremist, huh? What do we find proclaimed? The person of Christ, His death, and His resurrection. We find a Gospel made up solely of Christ and what He has done. Your extremist distortions are not there. But that is beside the point. We were talking about how Cornelius was an object of God saving kindness. Now of course, you can totally contradict the Pelagianism that you have given, and say that those good things mentioned were brought about by the grace of God, or you can contradict the scriptures.
*******************************

"With Paul, I say to sinners:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!" (Acts 16:31)"

Indeed! Amen! But why did you not read the very next verse? Does the infallible pope Zane not allow that? What does that unmentionable verse say? Then they spoke what? The word of the Lord? NAW MAN IT COULDN'T BE!!!!!! That would mean that Paul was not a Free Gracer! May that never be!!!!!!

Regardless, Antonio, it looks like you have dropped the ball and gave only a prooftext. You know, that thing you condemn others for doing yet don't recognize yourself as doing? You know, that hypocrite thing where you condemn others for what you yourself do as well?
******************************

"The majority of humanity will be waiting in vain. God is pleased to desroy them; the have been created to be damned."

And can you please say why God created those whom He forknew by forsight would be damned from all eternity past? If he knew they were going to go to hell, and that there was nothing He could do to stop that from happening, then why did He create them? Let me use your's and Dave Hunt's logic on you: A loving God would not have created them in the first place. So tell us, Antonia, why did God, knowing they would reject Him and suffer eternally, why did He create them? Did someone or something make Him do so? Was it His love that made Him create those whom He foreknew by forsight He would have to sentence to Hell?
******************************

"Cornelius feared God (text explicitly says that) and worked righteousness (he gave alms generously to the people). He fulfilled Acts 10:35 and as a result this unbeliever was accepted (see what I mean by this below) by God. He was seeking after God and praying that he might be shown the way. Cornelius diligently sought the Lord and prayed to God to show him how he might be saved"

Indeed Antonia. But you have just set yourself up to be the biggest legalist of all time. And do you know why Antonia? I'll give you a hint, it is in the very thing that you have written.
***************************

"According to my biblical view, people in any nation can seek God and incite Him to send them the good news of Jesus Christ whereby they can and will be saved. It is in this way that they are “accepted” by God."

Yes Antonia, we are all aware of your hatred of God's grace and your love for Pelagianism, but claiming it to be Biblical, well...you know... So people are accepted because they "seek God and incite Him..." Can you show us where Paul was seeking God? The "biblical view" is that he was seeking to persecute the church. Where does your construction fit in? Can you show me where, at Pentecost, all those who were converted were first seeking God? How about those in Galatia? How about Rome, you know, that place on the map that Paul wrote that letter to that established the fact that no one seeks God? Oh wait a minute, it can't say that, because that would be against your view, and I am sure you can explain those verses away.

But yes, Antonia, I fully admit, I can be very nasty. False teachers unfortunately bring that out in me. Thanks for asking though.

August 01, 2007 5:06 PM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

Doug, you done tole it like it is!

Antonio, our God - presumably the same as your God - is not capricious, arbitrary or mean. Please watch how you speak about the Almighty God, here at this blog.

August 01, 2007 5:39 PM

 
Blogger Susan said...

Gayla,

Somewhat relevant to the discussion in your post on that other blog is the following text, taken in advance from our pastor's bulletin back for this upcoming Sunday. (He emails what he writes to anyone interested). My pastor wrote the following (I didn't):

"Romans has the clearest presentation of the Gospel in the entire N.T. I say this because it deals with the most basic issues that an unlearned man may have, as well as the deep questions of the intellectual man.

"Paul has been laboring the point that all men are guilty before God no matter what their social or ethnic status may be. In other words, being Jewish does not make you any less guilty before God, than not being a Jew. Likewise, being a good non-Jew (I.e. Greek), also does not take away a guilty status before God.

"Paul mentions all of this to take away any hope that a person may embrace of being saved by their own goodness or inherent religious status.

"Salvation begins with understanding our need to be saved. This is not a knowledge any of us have naturally. That is, we must be taught this truth because it is not natural for us to admit we are guilty sinners before God.

"God tells us this in Prov 21:2 “Every man's way is right in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the hearts”. Paul therefore give this conclusion of mankind so that they might seek Christ as Savior- Rom 3:10 - "There is none righteous, no, not one.”

All of us need a Savior, and Christ Jesus the Lord is that Savior- Acts 4:12 - "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved".

"Christ came to accomplish two primary things -

#1- To pay the penalty for sin-1 Peter 3:18 “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust,…”

#2- To provide a righteousness not our own, in order to make us fit for God’s presence- Philippians 3:8-9 “I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ,…”

August 01, 2007 5:44 PM

 
Blogger Gojira said...

Hey Gayla, check this out:

http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2007/07/not-so-innocent-after-all.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/07/01/scibaby101.xml

August 01, 2007 9:14 PM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

Susan, THAT is a good word indeed. I don't know how much more clear it could be.

Doug, thanks for the links; I will check them out.

August 02, 2007 10:02 AM

 

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