Who's responsible for the Remnant?
1 Kings 19:18 (ESV) Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and all whose mouths have not kissed him."Romans 11:4-5 (ESV) And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
Romans 11:4-5 (KJV) But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Question? How did God reserve seven thousand? Did he intervene in a special way with the seven thousand that he did not with great majority of Israel? If not why would the text say, “I reserve.”????
Paul said, “So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.”
Question? Does this mean a remnant chosen by God? If this passage does not mean the remnant was chosen by God, why did Paul not write, “So too, at the present time there is a remnant that responded to grace."?????
posted by jazzycat at 9:40 PM
15 Comments:
it is of God that all are not corrupt and lost. It is owing only to the election of grace, to his merciful choosing, that any are saved. And as in the darkest times he has reserved a people to himself, so we should believe that he will still meet abounding evil, and save those whom he has chosen from eternal death.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved
Titus 2:11-14 11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works
I think Matthew says it all...
Matthew 7:13-14 13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Only a remnant will be elected. We all deserve hell, only by grace has he chosen few.
And to be one of His chosen is very humbling because I know I do not deserve such grace, horrid sinner that I was.
Cristina
July 19, 2007 6:10 AM
Jazzycat;
Answer!
Yes, the Lord elected seven thousand of His chosen ones to walk according to His will for His own good pleasure not to bow their knees to any other god.
That is by the exclusion of all others, as an example for the time at the end.
He also has chosen a people for His own possession, a bride who is spotless and without wrinkles, in order that election might stand.
I do not fully understand, what you mean by “responded to grace”.
As for me grace is irresistible, it can not be rejected.
July 19, 2007 6:52 AM
Cristina,
Yes, there is a remnant because God chose to intervene and quicken some to spiritual life.
July 19, 2007 8:55 AM
Paul,
By the term 'responding to grace', I am referring to the Arminian view that all men are able by their own free will to come to faith. I do not agree with that view and think these passages refute it, but I am interested in anyone with this view explaining how these passages reconcile with this non-Calvinist view.
I agree with you that grace is irresistible and many do not receive it.
July 19, 2007 9:06 AM
On a personal level, had God not chosen me by grace, He would not have choosen me at all. If He did not choose me before the foundation of the world He certainly wouldn't want anything to do with me afterwards. I am a wretched sinner, too filthy for Him to consider choosing me.
I am a brand plucked from the fire. I am mercifully and graciously saved due to God's electing love, period. Otherwise I suffer the fate of the rest of the world.
July 19, 2007 10:34 AM
They may have been predestined to be the remnant. I believe that there will be a remnant in Israel in the end times. It may be that these people have been chosen without regard to the decision of their will.
God has the freedom to do as He pleases.
However, I would point out that the remnant of seven thousand were not necessarilly the only ones saved in the land. They were simply those who had kept themselves free from idols. Hence if they were predestined unconditionally, we are not talking about predestination to eternal life.
Every Blessing in Christ
Matthew
July 19, 2007 1:53 PM
Matthew,
Don’t you believe Romans 11:4-5 is speaking of salvation to eternal life for a remnant in Paul’s day and comparing it to a like situation in 1 Kings where a remnant is saved by God to eternal life?
Wayne
July 19, 2007 3:57 PM
No, the election here is to the privileges which of which the believer partakes.
Israel was elected to earthly blessings and the Christian is chosen to be blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ.
July 19, 2007 4:10 PM
Matthew,
Romans 11:5 KJV ”Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."
You don’t believe this remnant of Jews that Paul speaks of has eternal life?
Wayne
July 19, 2007 4:23 PM
They have eternal life, but there is election is not to eternal life but to a privileged status.
These things are related, but they are not the same.
July 19, 2007 4:26 PM
Matthew,
I do not follow you. Can you explain a little more?
July 19, 2007 4:29 PM
Israel was chosen to be God's people, who were promised earthly blessings on the condition of faithfulness.
Every Israelite, whether or not a beliver was a partaker of those promises and a subject of that election.
For those redeemed in this dispensation it is rather different. Only those who are believers are the subjects of election.
Nevertheless, the election is not to eternal life as such, but to the privileges but to a privileged standing in Christ; privileges that flow from posession of eternal life, but which go beyond it, deeper into union with the Godhead.
God Bless
Matthew
July 19, 2007 4:36 PM
Matthew,
I guess we see Romans 11 quite differently. I see an election of individual Jewish people to eternal life. They are referred to as the remnant of the entire nation of Israel at the time Paul wrote Romans. The remainder of nation of Israel are unsaved. The people God foreknew in Romans 11:2 are the elect. Those whom God foreknew, he predestined………Rom. 8:29-30. In Romans 9 Paul developed the election and predestination of individuals. I think the text speaks for itself in speaking of the remnant in Romans 11. So, I do not know where you get your view.
Wayne
July 19, 2007 5:14 PM
Every Israelite, whether or not a beliver was a partaker of those promises and a subject of that election.
I don't know about this. What about all the Law in Leviticus - those who weren't living as believers suffered unto death for their disobedience, didn't they?
July 19, 2007 7:57 PM
Susan, the law was introduced after Israel was elected.
The promise to Abraham and his seed came before the law.
The law regulates those who are subjects of Abraham's promise and election, but it does not negate it.
God Bless
Matthew
July 21, 2007 5:09 AM
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