THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
(an email from James Lush)
“We who preach the gospel must not think of ourselves
as public relations agents sent to establish good will
between Christ and the world. We must not imagine
ourselves commissioned to make Christ acceptable to
big business, the press, the world of sports or modern education. We are not diplomats but prophets, and our
message is not a compromise but an ultimatum”
- A.W. Tozer
Labels: James Lush shares Tozer
posted by mark pierson at 7:58 AM
69 Comments:
Milk-white!
(Thomas Watson, "The Lord's Supper")
"The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all our sin!"
1 John 1:7
Christ's blood is a CLEANSING blood.
As the merit of Christ's blood pacifies God—so the
virtue of it purifies us. Christ's blood is heaven's bath.
It is a laver to wash in. It washes a crimson sinner—
milk-white!
The Word of God is a looking-glass to show us our
spots—and the blood of Christ is a fountain to wash
them away! "On that day a fountain will be opened
—to cleanse them from all their sins and defilement!"
Zechariah 13:1
But this blood will not wash—if it is mingled with
anything. If we mingle our good works with Christ's
blood—it will not wash. Let Christ's blood be pure and
unmixed—and there is no spot which it cannot wash
away! It purged out Noah's drunkenness—and Lot's
incest!
January 18, 2008 8:28 AM
> our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum
That's the same as a threat isn't it? All to do with power and control?
January 18, 2008 9:32 AM
I find the idea of being washed in blood totally repulsive. Why won't fresh clean water do?
January 18, 2008 10:02 AM
Maalie,
The Bible teaches that man wants to be in control, but that an all powerful God is in fact in control and has called men everywhere to repent and submit to his control. His power and sovereignty does not depend on man agreeing with or liking his actions. He does have all the power and he is in control. Man does not have the option of choosing to construct a god of his imagination or to choose to not have a god over him.
There is most certainly bad news for the human race that begins in Romans 1. But there is also good news that begins in Romans 3:21. You are currently living under the bad news of his wrath and judgment, but the good news of redemption and pardon is available in the good news.
There have been and are currently many highly educated scientists and engineers that believe the very thing you call ignorant. I would urge you to check into why they believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is no getting around the fact that many extremely brilliant people believe what you mock and ridicule.
Check out the libraries. You may be surprised.
January 18, 2008 10:10 AM
> The Bible teaches that man wants to be in control
But in fact it's "certain men" that gain control over the oppressed by threats of hell fire and damnation. History is littered with it. "Know thy place peasant while I live in riches, your reward will be in heaven if you pay me your tithes". Of course it's all abut power, control and corruption.
> easy to say that, but not the ones that publish in the mainstream peer-reviewed scientific journals.
>There is no getting around the fact that many extremely brilliant people believe
I'm afraid that doesn't obviate the truth about nature. It's called delusion. Believing in something, however passionately, doesn't make it true. It is futile to deny the evidence.
Of course I have read the stuff you mention, put about by religious deniers who masquerade as pseudo-scientists. But it doesn't hold up when scrutinised by peer review.
January 18, 2008 10:23 AM
Clara,
In the other thread you said.... Good morning everyone! I am disappointed to see that nobody is able to comfort me.
Did you read the bad news followed by the good news photo devotionals that I recommended at my blog?
Also, you might read the Bible and pray for understanding and accept rather than quarrel with the necessity of being washed in the blood of the lamb.
January 18, 2008 10:24 AM
"quarrel with the necessity of being washed in the blood of the lamb."
What on earth does that mean? I'm Australian, we talk plain down here. We shear lambs, castrate them and eat them, not wash in their blood mate.
January 18, 2008 10:32 AM
I'm off to bed now, it's well after midnight. I'll catch up with all this tomorrow.
January 18, 2008 10:37 AM
Maalie,
You said.....But in fact it's "certain men" that gain control over the oppressed by threats of hell fire and damnation.
Certainly religion and Christianity has been abused by false prophets and teachers. Throughout history man has attempted in many political ways to gain control over the oppressed. Scientists are also not immune from this as the current hysteria over man made global warming is on display for all to see. Their solution: government control, regulation, and loss of freedom. Who will pay the biggest price? The poor and oppressed.
You are right about none of the scientist who want to be accepted by their peers affirming Christianty. The reason is as simple as the global warming scam. Most (but not all) are intimidated and even fired if they do not conform to the "accepted concensus". Those that are not intimidated pay a heavy price in their careers.
January 18, 2008 10:39 AM
God's Love In Christ
'As I live' says the Lord God,'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'
A loving God calling out to rebellious ancient Israel. From this verse we can gain so much insight into the Heart of Almighty God. Truely God desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. He hates sin and its consequences upon the human race. His desire is that lost men and women would look unto Him and be saved. He is the One Who said:" There is no other God besides Me , A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me".
He pleads with the lost to "Turn,turn from your evil way!" You can sense the love and compassion of His Heart in the question, " For why should you die, O house of Israel?".
Indeed, God IS love. He is not willing that any should perish,but that all would come to repentance.
But,God's love cost Him dearly. " For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...".
Yes, He gave that One with Whom He shared His glory before the world was. He sent that One Whom He loved before the foundation of the world. No human can fathom the width and length and depth and height of the Father's love for His Son. The Father sent that One Who was the very center and focus of His infinite love. He sent that One Who alone is the brightness of His glory and the express image of His Person. He sent that One Who alone loved Him enough to be able to say,"I have come to do thy will, O God".
Yes, God's love cost Him dearly. Yes, What happened to the Son was pre-determined in eternity past. Still, the Son must endure and the Father must watch. The Son has taken upon Himself the sins of a lost world. He is beaten with a whip, ripping flesh from His bones. He is punched in the face, so much so that He is no longer recognizable. They mock Him, spit at Him and pound a crown of thorns onto His head.(He is the One Through Whom the world was created). But, the truth be known, all of this, and the cross that lay ahead was the Father's doing. He was carrying out His plan of having His Son pay the price for the sins of mankind. His plan was carried out by the hands of wicked men. God,you see, was in complete control.
There, on the ground lay the assembled cross. One can imagine the Son, out of love for His Father, out of love for mankind, walking over to the cross unforced. That love motivates Him to lie down on that cross unassisted. No one need hold Him down as the nails are driven in. Then that cross, bearing the sinless, sin-bearing Son of God, is picked up and thrown into an awaiting post-hole. His body bounces back and forth while suspended from those nails. There He hung, bearing our sins and the Father's wrath upon those sins. At one point the Father turns His head from the Son. Our sins are THAT ugly in His sight. Then, after hours of agony, out of the Son's mouth come those wonderful words," It is finished". Man's sins are now paid for. The Father's wrath upon those sins has been spent in its entirety. Now, with His sin-bearing mission complete, Jesus yields up His spirit. THE way to approach God is now opened.
Oh, what Christ accomplished on that day!
Now sinners, those slaves of sin, have deliverance from that slavery. Those coming to Him no longer need fear judgement, there is now forgivness of sins. Now repentance and remission of sins can be preached in His name to all nations. For, you see, three days later He rose again. The Father had accepted His sacrifice. The Son has conquered sin and death. God has provided the perfect way of salvation. It truely is finished!
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"...John 3:16.
Jesus now invites, yea, He commands, people to come unto Him - those who labor to be right with God, and are heavy laden with guilt over their sin - and He will give them rest. His instruction for us is to take His yoke upon us, so that He has control over our lives, so that He can steer our lives in the direction He would have us go. He would have us learn of Him, how He wants us to live.
Yes, turn from your evil ways, and come to Him. Look only to Him and be saved.
January 18, 2008 10:41 AM
Clara,
No offense. But you do need to read in the Bible about the story of Jesus being the lamb of God and a sacrifice for sin.....
January 18, 2008 10:42 AM
By the way, Jazzycat, you are wrong to say that I mock and ridicule. I dispute, query and seek explanation of some pretty strange ideas.
I saw a ray of light when your pastor and prophet admitted that some of the Old Testament is outdated but the tunnel has gone dark again.
January 18, 2008 10:53 AM
> He is not willing that any should perish
That seems contradictory to me. It says in Romans (I think, will stand corrected) that you have to come to him to be saved. Since about 2/3 of the world's babies, through no fault of their own, are born into cultures where he CANNOT be known. And if he is truly omnipotent and omniscient he knows this and plans it. Doesn't sound much like an almighty everlasting heavenly father to me.
January 18, 2008 10:58 AM
If not for His mercy and grace, His sovereign grace in choosing us in His Son before the world was created, we would be the objects of His Holy wrath just like everybody else. Eternal punishment is what we deserve when held up to the Holy Standard, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Unsaved, dead in trespasses and sins, slaves to sin, children of the devil, objects of the coming wrath; that's who we were before the love of God in Christ appeared to us; before the Holy Spirit quickened our hearts to the truth.
Jesus took the punishment we deserved. And, oh how He suffered! God the Father unleashed all of His fury on His Holy Son as He bore our sins in His sinless body. The Holy suffering for the unholy. All to bring to an end the enmity that existed between a Holy God who is just in His Righteous anger against sin, and sinful creatures as we, who deserve to be recipients of that righteous anger. So now there is peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Peace, no more being at odds, peace now to experience the love of God in all it's breadth, depth, and height. Peace, His care leading and guiding us through life, in all its ups and downs. Peace because now HE has control over us, no longer is it the "spirit that now works in the children of disobedience". Peace, because His promises to us are now "yea and amen" in Christ. Where once existed hostility - God's wrath towards sinful creatures as we, versus our willful disobedience to His decrees and will - now there is harmony to those in Christ.
What did it take to bring about this peace? What did it take to bring together two polar opposites - a Holy Righteous God, with whom is no darkness at all and unholy, sinful rebellious creatures as we? How could He become our Father and we His children? There was a price to be paid! Oh, what a price it was. God gave His Son. He gave His Son that we, His elect, might be saved from the wrath to come - that we might be adopted into His family as He puts us into His Son. He has made us accepted in His Beloved Son. "In Him we have redemption through His blood". Ephesians 1:7 says.
Now, let us consider what price the Son paid. Both Testaments paint a graphic picture.In Isaiah we read: "I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting". Isaiah 50:6. ...His visage was so marred more than the sons of men...Isaiah 52:14.By the time the soldiers had gotten done with their mistreatment of Him, He was beaten beyond recognition, even beyond having the form of a man! "He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed" Is 53:5. Isaiah goes on: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all." Verse 6. There's more---"He was oppressed, and He was afflicted---He was brought as a lamb to the slaughter---for the transgression of my people was He stricken. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief:---Thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin---by His knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for He shall bare their iniquities---He has poured out His soul unto death: and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors - Is. 53:7-12.
In the New Testament Jesus Himself at the Last Supper, while taking bread and wine, which stood symbolically for His body and blood, said of the wine "...this is My blood which is shed for many for the remission of sins."His blood shed that our sins may be forgiven. The blood poured from the crown of thorns pressed deeply upon His head. The blood poured from His back from the scourging with the whips laced with glass and bone chips. The blood poured from His face after the pounding He received from the soldiers' fists and from their pulling out of His beard. The blood poured from the nails in His forearms and ankles as He dangled from them on the cross. And, finally, the blood poured when, after His death, the soldier pierced His side with a sword.
Ah, there it is, that "fountain---opened---for sin and uncleanness." There is the means whereby sin can be forgiven and washed away. There is the means whereby we can come before the Throne of the Holy Creator and call Him "Father." From a position of rebellious, disobedient, hostile, morally filthy, unthankful objects of the coming wrath, to the positions of pardoned, forgiven, cleansed, reconciled, adopted sons and daughters of the Most High God! "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool" says Isaiah. Jesus came to die in our place, IN OUR PLACE!
While hanging on that rugged old cross something happened; Something that never, in all eternity past, nor shall it ever happen again. Something horrible, indeed the most horrible event in all history took place: at the height of His sin-bearing mission the Father turned His Face from the Son. "My God, My God why have you forsaken me?" was the Son's cry. Who could possibly imagine what it was like for the Father to turn His Head from the Eternal Object of His love? Who could imagine what it was like for the Beloved Son to experience the Father looking away from Him - a once in eternity experience. For the first time ever, never to happen again, the Son experienced the loss of Fellowship and joy of being in His Father's presence.That is the price that God paid for lost sinners!
January 18, 2008 11:02 AM
> the current hysteria over man made global warming is on display for all to see
Oh Lord, don't get me started on that! The International Panel on Climate Change, comprising the world's top meteorologists and climatologists, have agreed there is a 90% likelihood that anthropogenic global warming is happening. I can understand your prejudice, being American, because you love your great big cars! I'm afraid it's happening, good buddy, whether you like it or not! What a damned inconvenient truth!
January 18, 2008 11:05 AM
mMrk, where are you getting all this stuff from? You sound like a monk doing his incantations!
January 18, 2008 11:06 AM
Mark, apologies, mis-typing your name was accidental.
January 18, 2008 11:06 AM
Mark: You say Christ's death and suffering was pre-determined. I was taught that he always had a choice and could have opted out if he so wished but CHOSE the route to Calvary.
Are our lives pre-determined too, do you think? Has one child been picked out to be a believer and another not? Have you any idea how some people receive faith and another just can't seem to understand or accept the concept of faith.
Lorenzo
January 18, 2008 11:09 AM
God, has indeed sovereignly chosen from a lost race a people for Himself.
January 18, 2008 11:14 AM
You see, had He not chosen some to salvation, then all would have been lost; for no one would choose Him, their nature being contrary to all things concerning their Creator. In other words, all would be like "maalie", who, if does not repent, will perish in eternal fire and weeping and nashing of teeth.
January 18, 2008 11:21 AM
Testimony
I first came to know Jesus as my Lord and Savior in April, 1973. It followed a full year and a half of coming to know that I was a sinner.
It started in November,1971. I began to be aware, somehow, that I wasn't living a life that was pleaseing to God. Over the course of the next several months the realization that I was a sinner began to settle in, deeper and deeper. This was accompannied by a growing desire to read a Bible.
In January and February of 1973 Lake Ontario began to flood over, and the lakeshore residents began to cry out for help sandbagging in order to protect their homes. I thought,'there, If I help sandbag, God will look at this act of mine come judgement day, and all will be well'. A series of events prevented me from getting to the lakeshore, including no transportation. I started to get really scared. Now I could not do anything to earn my salvation. I knew, somehow, that judgement day was coming, and that I was not going to fair well in it.
Then, on March 8, 1973, I met Kevin Bartlett. He was 16 years old just like me. He lived with his twin sister and their mother. What a strange little family. I went to their house, and there, on the wall, was a copy of the 10 commandments. I began to read those commandments and started to squirm. I began to try to justify myself by picking and choosing the ones I hadn't yet broken. As you can imagine, this attempt to comfort myself didn't work very well. Kevin started to tell me that I was a lost sinner, and that my only hope of salvation was in believing in Jesus, that He died for my sins, and was the only way to be saved, just by believing, no works, nothing but faith in Christ alone. Somehow, I knew that he was telling me the truth. His preaching, and the coincident conviction that I was a sinner went on for a whole month. Kevin and his mother made sure to tell me that as I came to Jesus as Savior, He was also to be my Lord. I had no problem with that. I just knew somehow that they were telling me the truth.
On that April 28th night, it was a Saturday, I was at a church service at a Christian retreat house. As the service came to a close I leaned over to Kevin's mom and asked what I must do to be saved. In later times she told me I was shaking at this point. I do not remember that, but I was sure anxious to know what I must do to be saved. She told me to go forward at the end of the service. This I did. I went forward for prayer. I wanted Jesus to save me. I wanted Him as my Lord. The minister asked me if I believed that Jesus was my only hope of salvation. I told him "yes". I knew that no works could save me, just simple faith in Christ, that He died for my sins and rose from the dead three days later. I knew that He was the Son of God. There and then I called upon the name of the Lord. I knew then and there that I was saved. There was no doubt in my mind. I also knew that from that momment on I was to live for Him. How could I not? He had suffered so for my sins.
After I had arisen from my knees, I had this strong desire to tell people about the Savior. I had this deep hunger to devour His word. I wanted to be around Christians. Oh, the joy I had inside! I was cleansed from my sins. I was foregiven. I now had eternal life. What a wonderful night that was--April 28, 1973, at 9:10-9:25 pm.
January 18, 2008 11:24 AM
Isn't it gnashing?
I like to think my immortality lies in the continuation of my genetic material through my children and grandchildren, and that the nutrients that comprise my mortal body will be recycled usefully in the ecosystem.
Have you any idea where this lake of fire actually is? You speak of it as something literal.
If you will, like your pastor and prophet, concede that some of the Old Testament is outdated and meant figuratively, I could be interested...
January 18, 2008 11:25 AM
God has chosen from a lost race a people for himself.
That means then that unless you are one of the chosen people you will never see the Kingom. Does this answer my question about whether it is pre-determined who will and will not be called.
If Maalie hasn't been chosen, then it is not his fault is it?
January 18, 2008 11:27 AM
"No one need hold Him down as the nails are driven in."
What a Savior, and what love; and for ungrateful and self-centered sinners like us.
Mark, you're a Holy Ghost Preachin' Machine!
Thanks for sharing your testimony as well.
January 18, 2008 11:33 AM
>If Maalie hasn't been chosen, then it is not his fault is it?
That's the point I've been trying to make. My destiny was sealed before my conception. The same, I presume, with Clara's aboriginal friends and all the other babies who, through n0o fault of their own, were born into a culture that is not biblical.
Christianity sounds a rather exclusive little club to me.
God appears to treat those with and with faith, and between faiths, equally arbitrarily.
January 18, 2008 11:33 AM
None of the Bible is outdated and JD has never said as much. You've said this of him several times now. You can prove he said it by reproducing it here and now. Otherwise, shut-up!
Lorenzo, people go to hell by THEIR choice. They hate God and want nothing to do with Him.
January 18, 2008 11:34 AM
I am sure Maalie has never said he HATED God. He just doesn't believe in him, which is I think different.
January 18, 2008 11:42 AM
He said (copied and pasted):
>Obviously, modern classification was not available in the time of the writing of Leviticus and Deuteronomy
If that is not an admission that he acknowledges that at least part of the Old Testament was wrtten with incomplete information, I don't know what is. He has accepted that more modern understanding and knowledge alters the meaning of the original which, by definition, makes it outdated. Why can't you have the grace to accept that?
>They hate God and want nothing to do with Him.
That is absolutely not true. That is a blatant lie. How can they hate something that they don't believe exists?
I think they hate what the god-delusion does to people. When people like your own President goes to war becuase he claims "God told me to" that is indeed dangerous.
Bring on Hillary!
January 18, 2008 11:45 AM
"I am sure Maalie has never said he HATED God. He just doesn't believe in him, which is I think different."
Nay, they are one and the same. Maalie is without excuse. His blood will be upon his own head. My hands are clean. JD, Wayne, Don Sands and I have taken the time to share the truth with him. He is now accountable for what he has read.
January 18, 2008 11:48 AM
MARK PIERSON. How very dare you tell a fellow man to shut up.
Anger is a deadly sin.
You should be ASHAMED.
January 18, 2008 11:49 AM
MARK PIERSON.
He that exalts himself will be humbled and he that humbles himself will be exalted.
Luke 18.9
January 18, 2008 11:53 AM
> Maalie is without excuse
Maybe without excuse, good buddy, but not without evidence, after a lifetime's career of studying the natural world.
January 18, 2008 11:58 AM
I agree with Maalie about that dangerous president, who persuaded our own Mr Blair to follow his deluded way to war.
I don't agree with Maalie about Hilary though. I rather hope
Barack (?spelling) gets in.
Lorenzo.
January 18, 2008 12:01 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen! PLEASE! I take a snack break expecting to return to 'repentance' and....well, wow!
At least the Blog Administrators can't complain about the attention it's getting!
I think a touch of Unitarian sobriety is called for here, let me get my breath back...
January 18, 2008 12:06 PM
I was answering a point as to why your query was illegitimate, not acquiescing to your argument, and you are being intentionally disingenuous by repeating it as if I meant something other than what you knew I was doing. If this is all you have, then no wonder you won’t bring your sloppy, worn out attacks over to Triablogue, like I said you should if you wanted some meaty conversation. As it stands you just want to keep hacking away, like a hack. Indeed. I answered your points over at Susan’s, anyone can go over there and look at it for themselves, and yet you continue to misrepresent what I said as if you gain something by being this way. Jazzy even gave the context here at Bluecollar, and yet you persist. This is dubious work for someone who ought to know better. What would your peers say as to your argumentation, misrepresentation, and obfuscation? Would they think it well reasoned? You act (poorly, I might add) as if everyone is simply talking past you or that you don’t understand, or whatever else you want to break out of your bag of tricks. I answered you, perhaps not to your satisfaction, but I gave you evidence of why I believe, and you insist on trying to raise everyone’s temper. Sir, your true colors are showing, and the lack of maturity you display is not looking so refined.
We believe the Bible, you do not, we have given reasons why we do, and you don’t like them. We proclaim Christ, and it disgusts you. Okay, you have heard what we consider Truth, and we will not be moved, and you have given us reasons why, and you will not be moved. Let this be the end of the story.
January 18, 2008 12:12 PM
In your testomony Mark you say that you now have eternal life. Does that mean that you were pre-ordanined to be converted?
January 18, 2008 12:17 PM
We can believe the Word of our omnipotent and omniscient God, or we can believe the illogically biased, "scientific" explanations of fools. The Bible tells us, "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1; 53:1). The gospel has been presented here, only God can open a dead mans heart. Most scientists are very intelligent folks but as a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, true knowledge and wisdom can only be found in Him and Him alone, but you have to have that relationship before you believe this.
And Clara, we all are deserving of hell but by His grace, His Sacrifice some where chosen not to. Explaination: Grace and only the ones who knows Jesus Christ as their personal Savior would understand and except this. You were encouraged to read the Word of God, please heed those words.
Cristina
January 18, 2008 12:19 PM
Christina, I believe this question has been asked before, but not answered.
How old are children when you teach them about Hell?
January 18, 2008 12:32 PM
"How old are children when you teach them about Hell?"
I taught mine right from the earliest days of their lives.
"In your testomony Mark you say that you now have eternal life. Does that mean that you were pre-ordanined to be converted?"
God chose His elect before the foundation of the world.
January 18, 2008 12:48 PM
"MARK PIERSON. How very dare you tell a fellow man to shut up.
Anger is a deadly sin.
You should be ASHAMED.
January 18, 2008 11:49 AM
Viking Warrier said...
MARK PIERSON.
He that exalts himself will be humbled and he that humbles himself will be exalted.
Luke 18.9"
Viking, if you do not know Christ as Lord and Savior you'll have a lot more to worry about than my shame.
January 18, 2008 12:50 PM
> your true colors are showing, and the lack of maturity you display is not looking so refined.
Oh, resorting to ad hominem attacks now, are we? That's stooping a bit low.
You wrote what you wrote, matey, and it's there for all to see, though I can understand why you're going fast into reverse!
Well, I wish you well in your delusion, your blindness to the evidence, and your refusal to open your eyes to the evidence of the real world. You clearly have a vested interest (pecuniary?) in maintaining and perpetrating your delusion.
It's not just me, you know, it's the whole of the world's scientists (including American) who publish in mainstream peer-reviewed journals that you dispute. The same scientific community that is caring for your health. It's all the same stuff, biology, you know...
January 18, 2008 12:53 PM
"How old are children when you teach them about Hell?"
Along with Heaven and our Savior ...as soon as they understand it, at a very young age.
Lorenzo,
I think I read that you belong to a Uniterian Church? They believe that all will go to Heaven one day, right? Now if that is what you believer, where do you get that from Scripture?...or maybe that is not what you believe..Could you please explain?
Cristina
January 18, 2008 12:58 PM
No Christina, I am a Catholic. It is Clara who is the Unitarian.
January 18, 2008 1:01 PM
Your shame MARK PIERSON is in your intolerent and aggressive attitude to these people.
Do not presume upon my faith. My Lord knows what is in my heart.
January 18, 2008 1:06 PM
maalie, this will be my very last word to you:
It is possible that your Maker will require your soul from you this very night...
January 18, 2008 1:07 PM
Viking, if you do not know Christ as Lord and Savior you will die in your sins, and spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. May the Lord grant you repentance unto life.
These are my final words to you too.
January 18, 2008 1:12 PM
No, you're all wrong! It's ME that's the Unitarian!
We are not judgemental. If you want to believe in the Old Testament literally, go ahead, we won't judge you. If you regard it as allegorical and you accept evolution, go ahead, that's fine too. If you only want the New Testament, that's OK. Even if it's Mother Earth or the Sun, or your own sentience that guides you, we can cope with that. If you want to be reincarnated - see you next time!
We are united by respect for each other, dedication to the common good, care of the sick and the poor, compassion for those in prison, love of the earth, peace and goodwill, abhorrence of violence. And we get along just fine.
And we believe there is a place for us all in heaven, whatever that might mean to an individual. We do NOT believe in lakes of fire or that anybody is dammed from birth.
To die knowing that you have done your best during your time on earth is heaven enough to most of us.
January 18, 2008 1:20 PM
Mark, they are scarey threats! No wonder the biggest turn-off to Christianity is other Christians! That happened to me and a number of others I know!
January 18, 2008 1:23 PM
" they are scarey threats! No wonder the biggest turn-off to Christianity is other Christians! That happened to me and a number of others I know!"
Truth can be a turn-off. I hated it for years.
I remember when a young Christian girl shared with me, and I had other things on my mind at the time, and her mother showed up, and then said I would find my reward in hell if I didn't repent of my ways.
I said, "I'd rather go to hell, then to be in heaven with you".
Boy was ever wrong, and my arrogance was much worse than her's.
Mark shares the truth of Scriptures. God and His Word must be honored above all else.
Jesus honored the Word and His Father, and people hated Him.
Once Jesus was rebuking the religious leaders, and His disciples came to Him, and said, "Lord don't you relize you are offending these rulers of the temple?"
Jesus said, "Every plant that is not planted by My Father will be uprooted!"
You would have thought Jesus would have said, "You're right, I tell them I'm sorry, and try to be nicer".
Actualy, when I just wrote that it kind of made my stomach turn.
Bottom line, the truth surely can set us free, but we as sinners, who love our sin, hate the truth, unless we can mold the truth into what we want it to be, which is what we do, isn't it.
Lord have mercy on us.
January 18, 2008 1:37 PM
"Bottom line, the truth surely can set us free"
Top line, truth is what you perceive it to be.
Truth is disputable. I can sit back and see that both Maalie and 'Even so' have points.
According to the bible a bat is associated with fowls, not birds as Maalie claimed. However, in today's language a fowl is regarded as a bird. Who knows how these words might have been treated through a lineage of translations?
But, in my opinion (not my judgement, my opinion) 'Even so' definitely gave a strong indication that the original words would not have been the same if they were written today because, as he says, "modern classification was not available in the time of the writing of Leviticus and Deuteronomy".
The undeniable conclusion is that 'Even so' concurred that if today's knowledge was available at the time, it would have been written differently. And Maalie is reasonable in his opinion that this counts as saying it is outdated.
Remember, it was once held true that the earth is flat.
Come and join the Unitarians - we love you all!
January 18, 2008 2:15 PM
MARK PIERSON You do not know what is in my heart. Only the Lord does.
Repent MARK PIERSON. Ask for humility and becometh as a little child.
January 18, 2008 2:49 PM
We've had some rain! What a relief!
Seattle Boy,
What you have said made me look up the Unitarian Church website where I live, here: http://users.picknowl.com.au/~unitariansa/
It sounds just what I am looking for and fits my Aboriginal mates too. It says:
"No single religion has a monopoly on wisdom and truth. How you behave towards other people is more important than religious creed. Humans are part of a web of creation rather than that the universe was made for our benefit".
They seem a far more tolerant lot than these bullying Christians. I honestly can't be doing with washing in sheep's blood and swimming in a fire lake, it sounds horrible.
Can I ask you a favour to email me at: let_clara_know[at]yahoo[dot]com
please as there are some things I would love to discuss with you.
Thank you, Clara.
January 18, 2008 4:04 PM
My dear Clara, Please check your email!
I can say without hesitation that not only will you be most welcome there (as indeed all are) but I feel that you and your friends will make a wonderful contribution to the community. More on the email.
January 18, 2008 4:20 PM
Wow!
I've been out a few hours and get back to see this.
Seattle Boy,
I would like to speak the truth in love to you. when you said....
Top line, truth is what you perceive it to be.
My friend you have just digressed into nonsense. The post-modern concept of relative truth is nonsense. A person may believe with all his heart that he can jump from the top of a tall building and fly, but that does not make it true.
If the revelation of the triune God of the Holy Bible is true as I believe it is, then it does not matter what ways man concocts in his imagination to approach God because they will be futile.
That is the bottom line.
January 18, 2008 4:29 PM
>" A person may believe with all his heart that he can jump from the top of a tall building and fly, but that does not make it true."
Hmmm. And a person may believe in all his heart that a snake can talk, but that does not make it true!
January 18, 2008 4:34 PM
Christina: it is Friday night in UK and I have been out to our local Italian restaurant for a meal with my husband. I come back and find this blog has changed quite a bit since I left it.
I am a Catholic and that was why I asked the question about the age when you told your children about Hell.
As a Catholic child I was terrified of Hell. Is it right to frighten little children so? I notice Viking Man has talked about being children, but being children is very frightening. Surely our duty as parents is to be kind to our children and not to frighten them with the concept of Hell.
What do you tell your children about Hell?
I cannot believe a man like Mark would purposely fill his child's head with fear. Is this the only way you can keep your children on the Way?
January 18, 2008 5:11 PM
"Top line, truth is what you perceive it to be. "
Jesus said He is the Truth. And the He is the Way. And He is the Life. And that no one can come to the Father, who is God, unless they come by Him.
What do you think of this truth? Can we change what Jesus said and make it fit whatever we want it to mean?
Or do we simply accept what he said as truth, and know He wouldn't lie to us.
January 18, 2008 5:32 PM
"And that no one can come to the Father, who is God, unless they come by Him"
And that is the very point that Clara (and I think also Maalie) was making, because it appears to exclude those folk who by accident of birth were born into societies and cultures who could never know Jesus. As a Unitarian, I cannot accept that. That does not mean to say that I accuse anyone of lying but I can not rule out human misinterpretation.
Anyhow, I love you all, but I have to get back to my ship. Catch y'all later.
January 18, 2008 5:43 PM
"As a Catholic child I was terrified of Hell. Is it right to frighten little children so? I notice Viking Man has talked about being children, but being children is very frightening..."
What is stated in writing is no substitute for living life. Putting down something in black and white is not the same thing as the day in, day out raising of one's children. Mark is not advocating scaring children to death, nor am I. At some point in raising your child in the faith, do you tell him about hell. Sure, at some point. If you're a good parent, you'll do it in love, with grace and at the right time. That's pretty much just common sense. From the beginning, yes- even as a baby, my husband & I talked to our son about God in all things. You teach and instruct age appropriately, in spiritual matters as in everything else.
January 18, 2008 5:43 PM
In reading the entire comment section, I just wanted to add...
I think we sometimes forget that salvation is a supernatural act of God. No one is "convinced" of anything simply because something is repeated over and over again. God interrupts a life with Truth by revealing Himself, and He changes a heart.
Unless and until God divinely intervenes in someone's life, of course he'll be hostile to spiritual things, of course the cross is foolishness, of course there is no understanding.
Maalie is openly hostile to the gospel. OK; God is sovereign over that. Others seem as though they're searching. Could it be that God is in the process of drawing them to Himself? Possibly. God is sovereign over that as well.
Question for seattle boy: In the Universalist religion, in what do you put your hope?
January 18, 2008 5:58 PM
Seattle Boy: It does not surprise me that you cannot accept the words of Jesus when He said that no one could come to Him unless it has been granted him from the Father. After all, if you read John 6:65-66, you’ll find that nearly 2,000 years ago, a multitude of people abandoned Jesus for the very same reason.
January 18, 2008 6:19 PM
Hey Clara, I tried to email you (twice), but it bounced back. Do you have a different email address?
January 18, 2008 6:47 PM
Maalie you are a poor wee soul floundering in confusion.
Look into your heart man.
Listen not to bullies who rant and rave. Rest in the stillness and listen.
Be still your soul. The Lord is on your side.
January 18, 2008 11:23 PM
Gayla, many apologies, yeh, I made a typo. Seattle Boy reached me through my blog (I'm afraid there's not much on it), feel free to do the same (I was not really happy about publishing my email address anyway).
Seattle Boy, I hope you don't get sea sick! I'll keep you up-to-date with progress.
January 19, 2008 1:59 AM
I asked about when you taught children about Hell and Mark replied that he taught his right from the earliest days of their life.
I just bet you did. I bet also that the poor little children have nightmares, are frightened to sleep at night. Aren't you teaching them to fear God?
January 19, 2008 4:31 AM
This comment has been removed by the author.
January 19, 2008 5:35 AM
Maalie you are a poor wee soul floundering in confusion.
Appears to be true...
Look into your heart man.
What verse is that?!
Listen not to bullies who rant and rave.
Argumentum ad hominem
Rest in the stillness and listen.
To what?
Be still your soul. The Lord is on your side.
Hmm, the misappropriation of a great hymn...the Lord is not on the side of wicked sinners diametrically opposed to His gospel.
Psa 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day.
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
January 19, 2008 9:31 AM
"Look into your heart man."
"Cursed is the man who trusts in man, ... Whose heart departs from the Lord.
...Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord,
And whose hope is the Lord. ... The heart is deceitful above all,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
I, the LORD, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings." Jeremiah 17:5,7,9-10
January 19, 2008 12:35 PM
"Maalie you are a poor wee soul floundering in confusion."
Ah Viking, c'mon. How is this any better to say to someone than the rants and raves you accuse others of doing?
Lorenzo, did you read what I said about telling children about hell? And about fearing God...do you not think you should fear Him in many respects?
Clara, I left you a comment on your blog, or I getting ready to do that, anyway. :)
January 19, 2008 2:33 PM
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