LOOKING TO PRAISE AND WORSHIP JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. 18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

Tuesday, July 15, 2008

What shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

by Dave Moorhead

Mark leads us to the mountaintop of his gospel in chapter 8. It is the Continental Divide of Jesus’ ministry. Jesus pulls away the veil and reveals himself and his ministry clearly to his disciples. (In the next chapter he is transfigured on a literal mountaintop and Peter, James, and John get to see who Jesus is!).

Jesus’ teaching in 8:27-38 should leave his followers without doubts. “Who do you say I am?” “You are the Messiah!” “OK, then. You need to know some things. I’m going to be rejected by our own religious leaders; I’ll be executed; and I’ll rise from the grave. If you want to follow me you need to count the cost. You’ll have to deny yourselves, take up your crosses, and follow in my footsteps.”

Jesus finishes his watershed teaching with some warnings. He says, “Whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”

Whoever wants to save his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life will save it. Whoever wants to try to maintain control of his own life will lose it. Whoever is unwilling to surrender all his life to Christ will lose his life. Whoever sees Jesus and the gospel as more important than his own life will find life. This is exactly opposite of the flow of our society which is completely self-centered. In Christ’s kingdom the values are turned upside down! Those who lose are keepers! Instead of “finders keepers, losers weepers,” it’s, “keepers weepers, losers winners!”

Seriously, what good is it if we gain the whole world and lose our souls for eternity?And what do we have that we can use to redeem our souls?Finally, if we are ashamed to embrace Jesus’ words and ways; if we are afraid to live the radically Christlike life, we can’t expect Christ to recognize us when he comes! Will we take up the call of Christ and walk in his ways?

posted by Shiloh Guy

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11 Comments:

Blogger Celestial Fundie said...

The word 'soul' and the word 'life' are the same in Greek.

"Whoever would save his soul shall lose it, whoever loses his soul shall save it."

"What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world yet loses his life?"

English translations totally obscure this fact.

God Bless

Matthew

July 15, 2008 5:52 PM

 
Blogger bluejazzy said...

Then one must seek context and perhaps look to other passages to more fully understand.
Wayne aka Jazzycat

July 15, 2008 7:11 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Matthew Henry says the following about this passage:
Whosoever will save his life, by declining Christ, and refusing to come to him, or by disowning and denying him after he has in profession come to Christ, he shall lose it, shall lose the comfort of his natural life, the root and fountain of his spiritual life, and all his hopes of eternal life; such a bad bargain will he make for himself. But whosoever shall lose his life, shall be truly willing to lose it, shall venture it, shall lay it down when he cannot keep it without denying Christ, he shall save it, he shall be an unspeakable gainer; for the loss of his life shall be made up to him in a better life.

July 15, 2008 10:12 PM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

So Matthew -
God is able to destroy both "life" and body in Hell? Matthew 10:28

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your "life", with all your mind, and with all your strength? Mark 12:30.

My "life" is excedingly sorrowful, even to death? Mark 14:34

My "life" doth magnify the Lord? Luke 1:46

Now my "life" is troubled? John 12:27

I'm affraid there is no warrant for you to stop short in Mark 8:37, making it mean merely physical life.

July 16, 2008 6:43 AM

 
Blogger Celestial Fundie said...

Mark, that is why you would struggle if you used those verses to prove the existence of an immortal soul to the JWs.

I think the translation 'life' might be quite meaningful if applied to some of those verses you quote.

If you want to insist that in Mark 8, the word psyche should be translated differently in those two verses, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.

Every Blessing in Christ

Matthew

July 16, 2008 8:30 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Mark 8:35-37 (Young's Literal Translation)
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
Public Domain



35for whoever may will to save his life shall lose it; and whoever may lose his life for my sake and for the good news' sake, he shall save it;

36for what shall it profit a man, if he may gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?

37Or what shall a man give as an exchange for his life?

Mark 8:35-37 (American Standard Version)
American Standard Version (ASV)
Copyright © 1901 Public Domain



35 For whosoever would save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's shall save it.

36 For what doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?

37 For what should a man give in exchange for his life?


But then there are these...


Mark 8:35-37 (Darby Translation)
Darby Translation (DARBY)
Public Domain


35For whosoever shall desire to save his life shall lose it, but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's shall save it.

36For what shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and suffer the loss of his soul?

37for what should a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mark 8:35-37 (Wycliffe New Testament)
Wycliffe New Testament (WYC)
2001 by Terrence P. Noble,

35 For he that will make safe his life, shall lose it; and he that loseth his life for me, and for the gospel, shall make it safe. [Soothly who so will make his soul, that is, his life, safe, he shall lose it; forsooth he that shall lose his soul, that is, his life, for me and the gospel, shall make it safe.]

36 For what profiteth it to a man [a], if he win all the world, and do impairing to his [own] soul?

37 or what (ex)changing shall a man give for his soul?

Mark 8:35-37 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain


35For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

36For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

37Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mark 8:35-37 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation


35For whoever wants to save his [[a]higher, spiritual, eternal] life, will lose it [the [b]lower, natural, temporal life [c]which is lived only on earth]; and whoever gives up his life [which is lived only on earth] for My sake and the Gospel's will save it [his [d]higher, spiritual life [e]in the eternal kingdom of God].

36For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life [[f]in the eternal kingdom of God]?

37For what can a man give as an exchange ([g]a compensation, a ransom, in return) for his [blessed] life [[h]in the eternal kingdom of God]?

Mark 8:35-37 (English Standard Version)
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.


35For(A) whoever would save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake(B) and the gospel’s will save it. 36(C) For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? 37For(D) what can a man give in return for his soul?

Footnotes:

Mark 8:35 The same Greek word can mean either soul or life, depending on the context; twice in this verse and once in verse 36 and once in verse 37

It would seem that context is key. Seeking to save one's life, whether not dying daily or avoiding martyrdom, means you lose your soul,; else these verses make no sense.

July 16, 2008 11:47 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Mark 8:35-37 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


35For whoever wants to save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? 37Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Footnotes:

Mark 8:35 The Greek word means either life or soul; also in verse 36.

Mark 8:35-37 (New American Standard Bible)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation



35"For (A)whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it.

36"For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?

37"For what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mark 8:35-37 (21st Century King James Version)
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
Copyright © 1994 by Deuel Enterprises, Inc.



35For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for My sake and the Gospel's, the same shall save it.


36For what shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


37Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

==============
In the above thread, before this one, even your beloved KJV has "soul".

July 16, 2008 11:55 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Jesus spoke these words 2000 years ago. Yet in verse 38 it would appear that the conequences will be paid when He comes in the glory of His father.

July 16, 2008 12:00 PM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Well, off to work now. See ya tomorrow.
Mark

July 16, 2008 1:25 PM

 
Blogger donsands said...

The Savior [soter] came to save us from our sins (Matt. 1:21).
" .. whoever loses his life for My sake and the Gospel's will save [soterion] it."

Paul said that he wished he could be accursed from Christ for his brethren, and that his "heart's desire and prayer to god for Israel is that they may be saved [soteria]." Rom 10:1

If I had the greatest health, and the greatest wealth, and lost my physical life, no biggie. But if I lost my spiritual life to the second death?

July 16, 2008 5:28 PM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

I guess that I find Ryrie interesting here - From the RYRIE STUDY BIBLE
page 1499
notes on Mark 8:35 -The verse means this: Whoever would save his life (by renouncing the gospel and thus avoiding the risk of martyrdom) will lose it (eternally, because he has not believed the gospel);but whoever is willing to lose his life (as a martyr for Christ) will save it (i.e., will prove that he is a follower of Christ and an heir of eternal life).

July 17, 2008 6:19 AM

 

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