LOOKING TO PRAISE AND WORSHIP JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. 18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

Saturday, January 19, 2008

The Holiness of God by Paul Washer (Part 1)



A sobering video about the foremost attribute of God-Holiness

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50 Comments:

Blogger lorenzothellama said...

Is this the sort of thing you teach your children?

Do the Orthodox Jews who respect God's holiness get to Heaven? In your last posting you said only Christians do. You don't get any holier than an Orthodox Jew. I have known quite a few.

Very nice pictures, but it is a shame about the music.

Lorenzo.

January 19, 2008 1:38 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Loren,
you said......Do the Orthodox Jews who respect God's holiness get to Heaven?

God makes these decisions. You say you are a Christian so I ask you, Where would you go to find God's answer to this question?

January 19, 2008 1:46 PM

 
Blogger lorenzothellama said...

I don't know Jazzy. It depends which Testament you believe in. If the Old Testament then they would, but the New, well no they wouldn't.

This is one of my struggles I mentioned. In the last posting Clara was very insistent on this question so I kept out of it as she was asking all the things I want to know.

I mentioned I did meditation and I forgot in the list of places I had been on retreat was to Samye Ling the Buddhist community in Scotland. Samye Ling is run by the Abbot Lama Yeshe. Now there's a holy man for you. I don't necessarily believe all the things that he believes but I respect the holiness of that man. He is very special, just as the Dalai Lama is.

As a Catholic with a very loving, intelligent and humane priest, I have been encouraged to find spirituality where it finds me. I find it in all sorts of places. I find it in the concert hall listening to Classical Music, I find it in Ballet, in the outdoors, in my cat and dog, in nature, in inquisitiveness, in yoga, in Buddhism, in the mystery of the Holy Communion I receive each week at Mass.

We are all different and we all believe and disbelieve different things. After all Jesus said 'there are many rooms in my Father's house'. I believe there is a place for all of us.

I'll be off line for a while. I need to cook my husband's evening meal.

Lorenzo.

January 19, 2008 2:03 PM

 
Blogger Scribe said...

Is this the sort of thing you teach your children?

You'd better believe it! It is my parental obligation before the thrice holy God to raise them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord (Eph 6:4).

Deu 6:6 ¶ And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.


Do the Orthodox Jews who respect God's holiness get to Heaven?

I've made no such statement, and neither did Paul Washer...where did you extrapolate this ideology from?

In your last posting you said only Christians do.

I've not posted in a while...perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

Very nice pictures, but it is a shame about the music.

What is so intrinsically shameful about the accompanying music?

January 19, 2008 2:12 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Loren,
You said..... I don't know Jazzy. It depends which Testament you believe in. If the Old Testament then they would, but the New, well no they wouldn't.

Are you saying God's truth and his actions are only implemented on humans that believe his truth? IOW, do you believe the New Testament is true if you believe it, but not applicable if you don't?

What do you think the following Old Testament passage is referring to:

Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

January 19, 2008 2:17 PM

 
Blogger lorenzothellama said...

Food is bubbling away nicely so I've popped back.

I was trying to answer your question about whether Orthodox Jews go to Heaven. I put it clumsily. What I was trying to say was: according to your New Testament interpretation, then they wouldn't because they do not believe Christ was the Messiah.

According to the voice on the video the Orthodox Jews should be held in high regard and respect because of their respect and regard for God. So I assume the guy who was talking would say they would go to Heaven too.

I really don't know. That's why I was asking you.

Back to the stove.

Lorenzo.

January 19, 2008 2:29 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Loren,
Did you check the Old Testament passage I quoted?

In the New Testament Paul says:
Romans 3:21-26 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— (22) the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: (23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, (25) whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. (26) It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Notice in v. 21 Paul says the Old Testament prophets bear witness to a righteousness that comes apart from the law (see the Isaiah 53 passage). One verse before this in v. 20 Paul says, For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. IOW, no human being can live a holy, good, and righteous enough life to be justified in his sight. Being justified is the theological term for being saved and having eternal life.

I hope this helps.

January 19, 2008 2:48 PM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

I'm as reformed as anyone else on this blog, but I must tell you, I cannot stomach this Paul Washer. I've listened to him a few times, and quite frankly he creeps me out. While I mostly agree with what he says, I sure don't like the way he communicates it.

Here's one of my criterion - grace. Speaking the truth in love. Teaching that births hope - a hope that God is going to pull this thing off in me(whatever that 'thing' might be). I don't hear the grace in Mr Washer. Maybe that's just me.

He said, "God is not your friend." I then have to wonder about Ex 33:11 - 'Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend.' Is this not indicative of a relationship?

Anyway.

Now there's a holy man for you.

Lorenzo, what about this man constitutes him as holy?

And what do you mean by, "You don't get any holier than an Orthodox Jew?"

The reason I ask it because, of course, these assertions go completely against what Scripture says about the state of any human being. So I'm curious as to your thought process on it.


"As a Catholic with a very loving, intelligent and humane priest, I have been encouraged to find spirituality where it finds me...." Seriously, what in the world does all this mean. Sprituality in cats and dogs? This smacks of new agey stuff.

January 19, 2008 3:09 PM

 
Blogger Maalie said...

He sounds a bit hysterical to me. Well, folks, I have learned that God is holy, and he's holy because he's God. In my book that is a tautology. Oh, and he's not like us. Big deal.

Why are you people putting up with this?

Moreover he incorrectly quoted the Psalms. He said that in Psalm 111.9 that it says that God is awsome. It does not. It actually says:

He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

Reverend is his name. Not awesome.

Now, you might say that "awesome" is a more "modern" way of putting it. But then you would be admitting that the original is outdated, wouldn't you?

January 19, 2008 3:41 PM

 
Blogger lorenzothellama said...

Is this the sort of thing you teach your children?

You'd better believe it! It is my parental obligation before the thrice holy God to raise them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord (Eph 6:4).



You seem so proud of yourself. To deliberately scare a child is nothing but child abuse. We have laws in this country to protect children.

Lorenzo.

January 19, 2008 3:45 PM

 
Blogger lorenzothellama said...

The accompanying music was sham. It was mawkish and sentimental.

Lorenzo.

January 19, 2008 3:46 PM

 
Blogger Clara said...

I love the sheep! My family would have two of them for breakfast!

But there is no way, not for you, or anyone else, would I ever ever ever consider washing myself in its blood.

I have made contact with the Unitarians in Australia and me and my friends are going along in the morning.

January 19, 2008 3:49 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Maalie,
There are different translations of the Bible. You quoted the KJV.

Psa 111:9 (ESV) He sent redemption to his people; he has commanded his covenant forever. Holy and awesome is his name!

Therefore, he was not incorrect!
BTW, you have never answered what a godless evolution has to explain to be accepted. Why is there something instead of nothing?

January 19, 2008 3:54 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Loren,
Don't forget our conversation!

January 19, 2008 3:56 PM

 
Blogger lorenzothellama said...

The reason I ask it because, of course, these assertions go completely against what Scripture says about the state of any human being. So I'm curious as to your thought process on it.


Are you telling me that only Chrisians can be holy?

I go along with you Gayla that the bloke on the tape is creepy.

January 19, 2008 4:04 PM

 
Blogger lorenzothellama said...

Conversation continued on your blog Jazzy.
LtL.

January 19, 2008 4:06 PM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

Lorenzo, here is a copy & paste of what I said to you in the other thread re: teaching children about hell:

"What is stated in writing is no substitute for living life. Putting down something in black and white is not the same thing as the day in, day out raising of one's children. Mark is not advocating scaring children to death, nor am I. At some point in raising your child in the faith, do you tell him about hell. Sure, at some point. If you're a good parent, you'll do it in love, with grace and at the right time. That's pretty much just common sense. From the beginning, yes- even as a baby, my husband & I talked to our son about God in all things. You teach and instruct age appropriately, in spiritual matters as in everything else.

You seem to be (seem to be) somewhat stuck on thinking that we're all scaring our children to death, even though we (at least I have corrected you on this)


Correct me if I'm wrong Scribey, but I believe he was simply zealously affirming to you that, indeed, those were the things he teaches his children - NOT that he was sounding proud.

Tell me Lorenzo, do you teach your children to be afraid of the street, as in running into the middle of it. Or say, if you have teenagers do you teach them to be afraid of taking drugs? I sure did. There is healthy fear, and we'd better be teaching our children about it.

Also, would you be so kind as to address my questions to you in my 3:09 comment?

January 19, 2008 4:07 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Loren,
What assertions are you referring to?

January 19, 2008 4:07 PM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

Lorenzo, seems we were posting at the same time...

Are you telling me that only Chrisians can be holy?

I didn't say anything. I simply asked you what you thought were the criteria that made Abbot Lama Yeshe a holy man. Same question in terms of Orthodox Jews.

January 19, 2008 4:11 PM

 
Blogger Maalie said...

> There are different translations of the Bible.

Of course there are different translations (and mistranslations): one to suit every need! And certainly it needs to be brought up-to-date as conceded (whether he likes it or not) by your fellow pastor and self-styled prophet.

>you have never answered what a godless evolution has to explain to be accepted

That's not up to me, matey, it's your blog. You invite comments, I ask the questions. How about evidence for the Great Flood, as starters, please? I build my life around experience and evidence, not mythology.

January 19, 2008 4:13 PM

 
Blogger Clara said...

Gayla, Thank you for your private message. I won't put it in the public domain. I'm afraid I really have been put off by all that washing in blood stuff and swimming in fire. But most of all by the aggressiveness of that Mark and 'Even so'. The Unitarians seem so kind and understanding somehow.

Seattle Boy says hi, he has WiFi on his ship, how cool is that!

I must rush. Catch you later tomorrow!

January 19, 2008 4:20 PM

 
Blogger Maalie said...

All religious cults have an "if:then" scenario.

If [you don't do as we say] then [something awful will happen to you]

If [you don't join our cult] then [you will swim in the lake of fire]

If [you don't put money in our collection plate] then [we won't accept you as a member of our cult]

If [you walk under a ladder] then [you will have bad luck]

It's called indoctrination. It's called control. It's called exploitation. But, above all, it's called SUPERSTITION.

January 19, 2008 4:46 PM

 
Blogger Baptist Girl said...

I am going to be totally frank here and if folks get upset, so be it...I think these three people,
Lorenzothellama,Mallie and clara are playing us here.

Cristina

I don't appreciate how they have attacked Mark and others.

January 19, 2008 4:49 PM

 
Blogger Maalie said...

> I don't appreciate how they have attacked Mark and others.

Of course you don't. However, it is they who have made themselves vulnerable.

January 19, 2008 4:55 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Maalie,
Mark is the blog adminstrator for and he is at work. He has given me control when he is away and I would like to request that you refrain from doing any more posting here. Your continued mocking has worn thin and I have seen absolutely nothing for several comments that even comes close to common decency. I will leave what you have up if you refrain from commenting again. If not, I will delete all that I dislike.
Wayne

January 19, 2008 5:15 PM

 
Blogger lorenzothellama said...

I don't feel that Mark is vulnerable. He seems pretty thick skinned to me and totally self assured.

You seem to think that Maalie, Clara and I are having you all on.
Maalie and I He's my big brother and you will know that if you bother to come on my blogsite. I don't know much about Clara except what I have read here. She seems pretty sincere to me.

I know Maalie is sincere in his questioning of you and is not game playing. Nor am I. I have been talking to Jazzy on her blog.

How dare you judge us.

I do go along with Maalie about the cults and superstition. I am a Catholic and the Catholic church is so different today than it was when I was growing up.

Why I keep banging on about child abuse, is because when I was little I was taught things by the nuns that no child should be taught. I had nightmares and thought that if I died in the night I would go to Hell, to Mark's Lake of Fire in fact. I was too scared to tell my mother. If I had done so, she would never have let me set foot in the convent again. I was six years old and so totally innocent. I weep for that little child that was frightened like that. Child abuse. The nuns knew no better. I do believe their sin was their lack of imagination and knowledge of small childrens' minds. However, we now know what this sort of thing does to a small mind. Child psychologists tell us only too plainly. Your Dr Spock for one.

I don't have to discuss Lama Yeshe with you. I say he is a holy man and it's not up to you to question it.

You tell me Mark is a holy man.

Lorenzo.

January 19, 2008 5:26 PM

 
Blogger lorenzothellama said...

Jazzy: Are you a fella? You've just signed Wayne. Sorry, I thought you were a lady.

LtL

January 19, 2008 5:27 PM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

Lorenzo, thank you for expounding on the reason you've been emphasizing the issue of telling children about hell. Your past experience certainly gives a clearer understanding of where you're coming from on the matter. I am truly sorry that you experienced this in your childhood; that's a deep wound and I can see how that would color your thinking. I whole-heartedly agree that the nuns were dead wrong in their approach. Very seriously (and I say it like this b/c it's difficult to discern tone in the written word), I ache for you as someone who was emotionally abused as a child. Children deserve to be protected by those in authority over them - and they flat out abdicated their responsibility. I do pray that God heals that wound and delivers you from the hurt and/or bitterness that may have arisen from it. He is merciful to us, and gracious, and true healing comes from Him.

*~*~*~*~

"I don't have to discuss Lama Yeshe with you. I say he is a holy man and it's not up to you to question it."

That's fine. I simply thought this was a discussion where we were free to ask and answer questions. I would encourage you, however, to ponder the reasons you think he is a holy man.


"You tell me Mark is a holy man."

Actually I've said no such thing. Mark is not a holy man, in the sense that you describe this other guy or the Dalai Lama.

January 19, 2008 5:58 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Loren,
I have to be gone for a few hours, but I can't help but notice you have not responded to the two Bible passages I gave you to help you answer your own question from your first comment directly from Scripture rather than from me. One is from the OT (Isaiah 53) and the other from the NT (Romans 3:20-26).

I do not know who Lama Yeshe is, but I do no what the Bible teaches about all (100%) of mankind. We all including Lama Yeshe are sinners and need to place our faith in Christ to be in a right relationship with the triune God of the universe. No one is holy enough to save himself in and of himself from God's wrath according to the Scriptures.

January 19, 2008 6:00 PM

 
Blogger Scribe said...

Correct me if I'm wrong Scribey, but I believe he was simply zealously affirming to you that, indeed, those were the things he teaches his children - NOT that he was sounding proud.

Thank you for clarifying that point, Gayla...I was out with the family this afternoon. ;D


You seem so proud of yourself.

You are reading into my comments meaning that is simply not there, instead of engaging me in meaningful dialogue you resort to reductio ad absurdums.

To deliberately scare a child is nothing but child abuse.

Again, more vacuous statements to further obfuscate the matter. I should show my wife the asinine assertions you are making(she could use the chuckle).

January 19, 2008 7:09 PM

 
Blogger Scribe said...

I am a Catholic and the Catholic church is so different today than it was when I was growing up.

I beg to differ, She (The RCC) is playing an ecumenical game by employing evangelical language to woo her wayward
protestant "children" back to Rome. When she rescinds her anathemas and dogmas in doctrine and practice than shall I believe she has changed.

I've heard it said that the RCC is a lamb in adversity, a fox in equality, and a lion in ascendency.

January 19, 2008 7:31 PM

 
Blogger Susan said...

I'm with Cristina on this one. I don't think that the questions (by and large) that I have read have been from true inquisitiveness and seeking real answers, but instead from provocation and general hostility. That is the sense I get, anyway.

I don't know if there's anything to be gained on either side from the way the comments to this post and the previous post have run their course.

I would be interested, however, in knowing how the newcomers found this blog.

January 19, 2008 7:38 PM

 
Blogger Scribe said...

I would be interested, however, in knowing how the newcomers found this blog.

Interesting observation, Susan...one I have wondered about as well.

January 19, 2008 11:01 PM

 
Blogger Bobby Grow said...

I think this guy is imbalanced. Hebrews says Jesus is our friend and our brother. Jeremiah says that God is not only one who is far away but he is also near. Jesus Christ proves it.

When I listen to this guy, and this is only the second time thanks to Scribe, I get that cultic feeling -- you know what I'm talking about? Anyway I think this guy needs to get some perspective.

January 20, 2008 1:48 AM

 
Blogger Maalie said...

> I would be interested, however, in knowing how the newcomers found this blog.

In answer to a direct question, I came over here from Halmon aka Susan's blog and she is a regular poster on Lorenzo the Llama's blog. Halfmom has also posted on mine. In particular I followed a comment from 'Even so' (your pastor and self-styled prophet) on her current to his profile and hence to this blog. Sounds quite reasonable, doesn't it? That's the nature of blogging. No conspiracy there, matey.

I can't speak for anyone else though.

I do not consider myself to be mocking. Questioning, yes. Challenging, possibly. Challenging my own experience of life with your belief. If you are confident in your belief, you should not fear the challenge.

January 20, 2008 2:13 AM

 
Blogger Maalie said...

> I beg to differ, She (The RCC) is playing an ecumenical game by employing evangelical language to woo her wayward protestant "children" back to Rome.

I think you have a point here, Scribe. I too was brought up a Catholic. A lot of the trimmings have gone, the Latin and so on, but so long as the Pope considers himself to be infallible they retain those outdated ideas about contraception, subjugation of women, and so on.

May I ask, as an ingenuous question, if you (as a group) thinks the Pope can be describe as Holy? His Official title is of course "His Holiness".

I must say also that I am extremely impressed by Gayla's response to Lorenzo. This is just the sort of open discussion I was expecting to see in a blog like this.

Jazzycat has threatened to ban me (notice the "If:then" threat so beloved of all religions?) but I would like to add, if I may, that another form of child abuse by Christians has been alleged. And that is that the fashion for home-schooling in America may be tantamount to child abuse because it seeks to deny children access to a balanced education.

Home-schooling is strongly discouraged in the UK, I should add.

January 20, 2008 2:37 AM

 
Blogger Maalie said...

Finally, I should like to say that I think that Bobby Grow is courageous saying he disagrees with that guy and admitting, effectively, that the bible can have different interpretations. That is the problem with metaphor, that is what I have been saying all along.

There y'are, y'see, that is three of you I agree with. How can that be called mocking?

Anyway, I wish you all a very pleasant Sabbath. I shall spend mine banding birds as part of my ecology research. By the way, I LOOOOOOVE you're Everglades National Park - I have been twice!

January 20, 2008 2:55 AM

 
Blogger Clara said...

My Sabbath is nearly over, I'm getting ready for bed.

I had a lovely time with the the Unitarians, I am definitely going back. They are very friendly, not at all scarey people and they laughed out loud when I told them I was worried I would have to wash myself in sheep's blood! My friend liked it too.

By the way I found you by Google, but I cant remember what I put. But I feel it is providence because I am happy now.

January 20, 2008 4:24 AM

 
Blogger lorenzothellama said...

Like Maalie, I came through from Halfmom.aka.susan who is a friend of mine.

I'm not sure I will bother coming back though. I have never come across such a lot of bigotry, self-righteousness and judgement. That is not the teaching of Christ.

I have seen no sign of humility or graciousness.. Only arrogance and self-satisfaction.

No doubt you will delete this, along with my other comment about what I believe and think about the war with Iraq.

January 20, 2008 5:34 AM

 
Blogger Seattle Boy said...

Greetings to all from Lat. 40.26N, Long. 124.27W, just off the coast of Oregon. It's early morning here.

I found this blog by following a link from another one.

My dear Clara, I'm so pleased that you seem to have found something that suits you. As you say, it must be providence at work. God moves in mysterious ways, you know!

January 20, 2008 8:03 AM

 
Blogger Scribe said...

I think this guy is imbalanced. Hebrews says Jesus is our friend and our brother. Jeremiah says that God is not only one who is far away but he is also near. Jesus Christ proves it.

I've heard a lot of Washer's sermons, and what I think he is fighting against is the trite platitudes promoted by American Christianity w/ regards to Christ.Sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to the "Jesus is my homeboy" syndrome.

I think of Martin Luthur's strong "knee-jerk" reaction to the papacy insomuch that he felt the book of James was a "a right strawy epistle" and questioned whether a book of such inferior worth even belonged in the New Testament.


When I listen to this guy, and this is only the second time thanks to Scribe

Hey!? Was that a pejorative remark!?

, I get that cultic feeling -- you know what I'm talking about

Not really, Bobby, what are you talking about? I hope you're not poisoning the well here as you've only heard two partial sermons.

By the way, if you dislike Paul Washer, you'd also have to dislike, Leonard Ravenhill, A.W. Tozer, A.W Pink, George Whitefield, John Wesley, Johnathan Edwards, Paris Reidhead, Iain Paisley, David Wilkerson,etc, etc.

January 20, 2008 8:28 AM

 
Blogger donsands said...

Paul Washer reminds me of someone like Tozer.

I don't think it would hurt the church to hear some firey preaching like he does.

If he preaches this way constantly, and comes forth this way in all his sermons, I'd have a difficult time attending his church. However, with the overwhelming amount of preachers in the Church today, like the Joel Osteen's, Robert Schuller's, and Rick Warren's, does a Paul Washer help balance this out a little?

What would happen if Paul Washer would preach to Joel Osteen's church?
Many may be convicted perhaps.

Personally I love expositional preaching, as my pastor does. Our some one like John MacArthur, or RC Sproul, or Sinclair Ferguson.

I do love to listen to Ravenhill, and Tozer though. I'm not sure if Washer makes it into their camp, but he's at least similar.

Thanks Scribe for sharing this.

It stirred things up, and that's a good thing. Jesus often stirred things up. That's how we grow.

January 20, 2008 9:01 AM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Maalie,
Home-schooling is strongly discouraged in the UK, I should add.

I am not surprised as a loss of freedom always goes along with moves toward socialism and the nanny state. Socialized medicine is another example of this. The UK is much further along than the US, but we are trending in that direction as the leftists in this country also do not like home schooling. This limits the manipulation of youths with leftist propaganda.

I do believe someone home schooled in America would understand that they should not visit someone with mocking, and insults. I would even think a home schooled student in America would honor a request to not visit anymore.

January 20, 2008 9:05 AM

 
Blogger Scribe said...

I do love to listen to Ravenhill, and Tozer though. I'm not sure if Washer makes it into their camp, but he's at least similar.

If I am not mistaken, Ravenhill was at one time Washer's mentor, like Tozer once mentored Ravenhill.

January 20, 2008 9:22 AM

 
Blogger Susan said...

'Even so' (your pastor and self-styled prophet) on her current to his profile and hence to this blog. Sounds quite reasonable, doesn't it? That's the nature of blogging. No conspiracy there, matey.

I can't speak for anyone else though.

I do not consider myself to be mocking. Questioning, yes. Challenging, possibly. Challenging my own experience of life with your belief. If you are confident in your belief, you should not fear the challenge.


This is what I mean.

self-styled prophet

I consider that mocking. Has "even so" (JD) called himself a prophet or anyone from this group blog named him to be?

Along with no conspiracy there, matey.

I suggested no conspiracy.

If you are confident in your belief, you should not fear the challenge.

I am, and I don't, but never were these points raised, but by you. I was just wondering how three new people found us all at once (at the same time and started on with the provocation; it's far more provocative than genuine interest in the theology).

I don't think I'm the only person on this group blog who senses more than a "challenge." Maalie, your comments, even in this answer about how you found this blog, have a ring of sarcasm.

In my view, a real "challenge" would be direct references to Scripture in context that would pertain to the theology held at this group blog, not one person's own experience of life.

Experiences vary greatly and Scripture says our hearts are deceptive. We could go in circles without result discussing experiential learning.

January 20, 2008 9:49 AM

 
Blogger Susan said...

Oh - I forgot to add my thoughts on Paul Washer.

Not unlike Gayla, after about the third viewing of his approach in a YouTube video, I kind of wanted him to calm down a bit, but as I was thinking on this last night, I realized that this is a man speaking as one who has been saved from the depths of hell and eternal judgment - who recognizes his own sin, his lack and unworthiness, and God's amazing love for him in Christ.

Thinking on it that way, I can see why Washer is emotional and fiery. I don't mind his approach. I agree with him for the most part, so I can appreciate his emoting; he's truly grateful to God and pointing to Him, not himself.

January 20, 2008 9:57 AM

 
Blogger Baptist Girl said...

I find Paul Washer to be a man on fire for God and his passion for the lost and the saved is evident in his preaching.He preaches conviction. I don't know how anyone can see this as"Culitsh".

Cristina

January 20, 2008 12:34 PM

 
Blogger Gayla said...

"I don't know how anyone can see this as "Culitsh"."

I think it's because people hear him differently, and his tone strikes a different response within different people. And really, that's ok - or at least it should be. It's ok to prefer a particular style and tone over another.

As I said above, I mainly agree with the content of his message (although I somewhat agree with Bobby that he's a tad off on a couple of points). I don't happen to care for his style, nor his tone of voice. In my opinion, he comes across rather eerie. And again it's ok to hold that opinion.

Also, as I said above, within any message, I'm looking for the grace of God and the hope that He is going to move. I'm not hearing it in Paul. Truth and grace - there's gotta be balance.


Seattle boy - you probably didn't see my question to you in another thread, but I was curious as to what the core beliefs were of the Unitarians. Mainly - in whom or what do you find your hope?


"I'm not sure I will bother coming back though. I have never come across such a lot of bigotry, self-righteousness and judgement. That is not the teaching of Christ."

Oh my, Lorenzo!? Other comments aside, please let me know where I have come across like this to you?? And now considering other comments, where do you see this displayed. No doubt the Truth of the Word of God has been exhaustively presented on this blog. I would submit that perhaps your argument is with God, and what He says and has set up, rather than the indiviual people here.

Maalie, thanks for that. :) I don't think you'd disagree with me in asserting that you are, in fact, an unbeliever. It should be no surprise (to us or to you) that there is obviously a chasm between your beliefs and ours. I, for one, have no problem with what you consider challenging and what others might see as mocking. It is not my job to beat you to death with Scripture (something to which you don't use as a point of reference in the first place) or "convince" you of anything. It IS my job to share with you the gospel of Jesus Christ; and it is up to God to stir your heart and move in your life as He sees fit.
I do know that Jesus IS real, He laid down His life to save sinners; He rescued and saved my sorry soul to be sure.

January 20, 2008 1:20 PM

 
Blogger donsands said...

One thing Washer misses on I think, as some others mentioned as well, is the word friend. Paul says God is not our Friend.
Though the Bible says Abraham was God's friend, doesn't this also me He is our Friend.
Jesus said to His disciples, "You're no longer slaves, but friends".
Jesus says there's no greater love than to die for your friend. Jesus died for Peter, His friend. Jesus died for Abraham, His friend.
And I have to believe we can, with astonishment and pure humility, say that God is our Friend.
Though, I must say this as well.

Though Peter surely took Jesus' words to heart like no one else on this earth, except maybe for John, Peter never referred to Jesus as His friend, but as His Lord, and as His Christ, as Jesus Christ, and even Chief Shepherd.

So, I believe God surely is our Friend, (higher case always), and there surely will be times when we need to know that in our hearts, however He is God first and foremost, as Paul Washer emphasizes here. He is our Father as well, as Paul tells us.
He is our Lord and Savior, and we need to broaden our hearts and minds so that we can understand all that God is to us, His beloved children.

Those in the world, who know not God, have the need of seeing God as a holy Judge, and so ask for mercy. But after God's mercy, through the Gospel, brings a soul to repentance and faith, and this soul becomes a genuine heir and child of God, then this child needs to learn of God the loving Father, and Savior, and Friend.

Have a great day in His grace and love.

For our part, we should be in awe of this incredible truth.

January 20, 2008 3:31 PM

 
Blogger Jim said...

As an unreforming non-calvinist, I would have to say I enjoyed this video.

Paul Washer did a good job of emphasizing the incredible nature of God's holiness. He is truly an awesome God and one to be feared.

Thankfully those of us in Christ can know His immense love and fellowship as well. Jesus is the incarnation of the most Holy God. He is also the "friend that sticks closer than a brother" and one Who will "never leave us nor forsake us"

So as Don Sands points out, yes I think there maybe a bit of overreaction to the "Jesus is my homeboy" and probably rightly so.

God bless,
Jim

February 01, 2008 2:41 PM

 

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