Atheists believe and have faith....
Make no mistake, by definition, atheism requires faith and belief.The dictionary defines faith and atheist as follows:
Faith: belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
Atheist: n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
Since atheists cannot prove there is no supreme being, their position of disbelief is based on faith. Therefore, when atheists mock, and impugn Christians by saying their belief is based on faith, they are exercising extreme arrogance. It is quite simply a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
God has the following to say in Job 38:1-4:
Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:2 “Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. 4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?Tell me, if you have understanding.
It is certainly possible for one to not have faith when claiming they don’t know, but it is the height of pride and haughtiness to impugn Christian faith while at the same time exercising a godless faith. They are not going to get away with it here.
Let he that has ears to hear, hear!
posted by jazzycat at 10:20 AM
21 Comments:
COMMENT REPRINT FROM THREAD ON GENESIS 1:1
To Maalie and ALL
The record of this thread shows that once again Maalie has abandoned the conversation when he has been challenged beyond his comfort zone. He refuses to offer an opinion on the origin of matter and the origin of the universe. His excuse is that he is not a cosmetologist; however, he is not a theologian either, but has no problem discussing and bungling Christian doctrine.
He affirms a Godless Darwin evolution and yet wants to start the story after the earth has been created. His modus operandi is to hit a post, criticize, denigrate, accuse and then when the questions carry him to a point of admitting he does not know where matter/energy came from, he defers to faith, other experts and runs. He mockingly criticizes Christian faith, yet practices a godless faith.
Here is a direct quote proving his faith in a Godless origin of the universe, referring to the origin of matter he says: “You keep coming back to this futile point. We do not yet understand, and we may never understand how the time/energy/matter continuum operates. Perhaps it has always been there.”
If you do not know and rule out the possibility of God creating the universe, then you are asserting faith by ruling out a possible explanation. In short, he claims it is faith for Christians to believe Genesis 1:1, yet there is no faith or belief in denying the truth of Genesis 1:1 and affirming a godless origin of the universe. Maalie, I hate to break the news to you but in your affirmation of a godless origin of the universe you are exercising faith and belief. You are doing the very think you mock and impugn.
April 04, 2008 10:40 AM
Maalie,
You have had your chance on the last thread and bailed out. I for one am no longer interested in your views and I am not interested in coddling you.
April 04, 2008 10:44 AM
LOL!!! This is where things get good. Now, I'll just grab my bag of popcorn and watch the fireworks.
April 04, 2008 10:46 AM
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April 04, 2008 11:29 AM
Amen Jazz!
“They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator - who is forever praised. Amen.”
“For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).
My faith comes from and lies in the Word of God and the Creator.
The Athiet's faith comes from another power all together.
April 04, 2008 11:30 AM
Mark and Cristina,
Yes it is funny when atheists criticize Chirstian faith when their leap of faith is ultimately based on nonsense. They are comforted by their Darwinism as if it verified atheism. It does not. They must explain the origin of matter/energy and of the universe to do that. They have no clue and no rational theories. Their faith is based on nonsense.
The more scientific knowledge we gain, the more intelligent design is apparent. Their foundation is bankrupt and their only defense is to attack intelligent design which I guess makes them feel good.
April 05, 2008 9:28 AM
... But, where are the fireworks?!
April 05, 2008 11:36 AM
Sorry to disappoint you Mark about the fireworks, but Maalie has gone camping this weekend so will not see this posting.
There seems to be very little middle ground for those who fall between the fundamentalist and the atheists. I feel that both camps are highly intolerant of each other, and I feel ashamed as a Christian to see my bothers and sisters in Christ exercise such malign behaviour to someone who is ripe for conversion.
April 05, 2008 2:35 PM
Loren,
I have been wanting to ask you a question for a long time. Do you base your salvation on Works as does most of the Catholic Church?
As for tolerance Loren, I think you will find anything to attack some here on Blue Collar who back you brother in a corner or yourself. Jazz has tried many times to answering questions and the response has been sarcasm and intolerance. Many here have invited you over to their blogs to discuss this and yet you do not go there to get answers. Gayla has asked you many times and yet you stay here. I really wonder if you are both here for answers or just to cause division. You all get mad at me...so be it......I am getting sick of these two making snide remarks against a brother(s) in Christ or any Christian
Cristina
April 05, 2008 2:56 PM
Cristina,
Good point. I think you have nailed it in your assesment.
Mark,
Perhaps the church of Darwin is having a weekend retreat to honor their founder....
April 05, 2008 3:00 PM
I don't get mad at you Christina. I just feel frustrated that if I disagree or ask you questions or comment on your attitude I am accused of persecuting you.
What I find so difficult to understand is your absolute certainty that you are amongst the elect. I know all the theory, and I know, despite your remarks about Catholics, that I am saved by grace. But ... that doesn't mean we can sit back smugly and not carrying on trying to be better than we are. I know none of us are perfect but that doesn't mean we don't have to try our hardest to be less imperfect.
When Maalie and I were children, the Catholic church wasn't hot on Bible teaching. In fact we didn't even own a Bible. Our Biblical knowledge came from the weekly readings at Mass, the Epistles and Gospels, and then probably a brief sermon. The whole point of a Catholic Mass is to celebrate Holy Communion, to re-enact the Last Supper. This is what Mass is about, all of it leading up to the moment when we take communion. I think it is difficult for someone who has not been brought up a Catholic to quite comprehend the significance of communion.
Now, Bible teaching is encouraged, and we have Biblical teaching, but still that takes second place to communion.
We each have our own way of worshiping. This is mostly what different denominations are about, just the style of worship. In Poynton where I live we have Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist and Pentecostal churches and we each visit each other's churches from time to time for special services. We are always made very welcome which ever church we attend. There is a very nice atmosphere in this village and we all really get on well together. The ministers, vicars, priests etc. all meet monthly to swap views and have lunch together.
OK, so I don't have your conviction about being amongst the elect. I'm just a sinner who is struggling to find my way.
April 05, 2008 3:32 PM
A passing thought.
We have discussed taking the Bible literally and I know your feelings about it.
When I was talking of taking Holy Communion just now, I wondered what you think about Communion. Catholics believe in trans-substantiation. I have no difficulty with this, as you have no difficulty with Adam and Eve and the flood.
I am sorry I haven't visited Gayla more often. I didn't realize she wanted me to become a regular on her posting. I feel when I write to Bluecollar I am writing to all of you. Gayla has been the most compassionate member of your team and I really hope I haven't offended her.
April 05, 2008 3:38 PM
Loren,
It was not you who I meant getting mad at me, but those that do this blog together.
Yes we are saved by faith, not works, yes it is Grace. Ephesians 2:8,9 says that Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians2:10). “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17) And if your salvation is based on Grace, then I am happy to hear that.
As for being one of the Elect, the bible teaches this Loren. I do not call myself a Calvinist, Mark know this. I do believe that we are the Elect because if God did not choose me I would not have gone searching for Him.
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began...if you are born again Loren, then you are one of the Elect.
Loren I beleive bible study is most important, It is God speaking to you through His word. A christian needs to be fed.
Mass .....Heb. 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Hebrews 9:24-28 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
I am sorry if I have come away sounding harsh, but I love my brothers and sisters in Christ and when I feel they are being attack with no warrant, I will say something....no matter who gets upset with me.
I hope you will take Gayla up on her offer of discussing further, she can guide you on the path, answering your questions and you seem comfortable with her, so I encourage you to do so.
Cristina
April 05, 2008 4:15 PM
Sorry Christina, I didn't really understand your answer. Maybe I'm just tired.
My eldest son, my daughter-in-law and my little grandson are coming tomorrow to stay for a couple of weeks. They live in Japan so I don't see them often. I may not have time to visit regularly in the week, but I will pop back whenever I can.
I am very tired now, so I'm off to bed.
April 05, 2008 4:36 PM
With the aid of JIA (Jazzycat Intelligence Agency) we've intercepted the ten commandments for the church of Darwin. We have posted them over at Jazzycat 2
April 05, 2008 5:50 PM
Loren,
I hope you enjoy your time with your family.
Cristina
April 05, 2008 10:09 PM
Loren,
Here is a good explanation why transubstantiation is not biblical.
Jesus died "once for all" and does not need to be sacrificed again and again.
http://www.gotquestions.org/transubstantiation.html
I also have another question for you Loren. Do you believe all will go to heaven, sometimes your comments about Hell make me think you do not believe some will end up there?
Cristina
April 06, 2008 7:24 AM
Christina. Just back from Mass. Off to get Jack from the airport in a couple of hours.
I don't know about Hell. I used to think I had it all sussed out. I thought I knew it all, but the older I get the more I realize I know nothing and previously I was suffering from spiritual arrogance. It is so easy to fall into the trap of 'spiritual oneupmanship'.
I now live my life day to day, and am thankful for what I have, and wish peace and happiness to all beings. I don't try to convert anyone. I feel that each one of us has our own way to travel, and that each one of us has a different route to go. We are all unique and have unique paths to pursue.
Deep within us lies many unanswered questions and there lies the way forward.
One of my nun friends recently sent me a text which says:
"Woven into our lives is the very fire from the stars and the genes from the sea creatures and everyone, utterly everyone, is kin in the radiant tapestry of being".
I think everyone has their tale to tell, and however aggressive and overbearing they may seem, they each have something of importance to impart. It's having the patience to wade through the dross to find the gem that is needed.
Love Lorenzo.
April 06, 2008 9:10 AM
Cristina!
Wayne and I have APPRECIATED your support throughout this time!
Mark
April 06, 2008 10:05 AM
Yes indeed......
April 06, 2008 5:41 PM
Mark and Jazz
Your Welcome.
Cristina
April 06, 2008 10:19 PM
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