LOOKING TO PRAISE AND WORSHIP JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. 18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

Thursday, July 17, 2008

A Thought

Authentic faith in Christ as Savior is exhibited in discipleship. No discipleship no faith, period.



Blogger mark pierson said...

There is no, NO model in scripture of anyone having eternal life apart from being a disciple.

Jesus, not John, is the final authority on evangelism.

We are to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all things that He has commanded. We are to preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes, and is baptised will be saved. He that does not believe is condemned. We are to preach repentance and remission of sins in His name to all nations.

That is how The Master wants it done.

I would rather err on the side of obedience to the Master, as He tells us in the Great Commission how to bring the gospel to the world, than to side with some obscure Greek scholar who is ring leader of some fringe group who follows him slavishly where ever he goes.

July 17, 2008 1:55 PM

Blogger Daniel said...

It is a kind of madness to imagine that when the Holy Spirit takes up residence in a person He could (or would ever) do so in such a way as to leave absolutely no evidence of having done so.

That is, the premise is, that when you are created a new creation in Christ - there is going to be some evidence of that.

I think that anyone who denies that is very confused.

Notwithstanding, many fall off the horse on the other side too - believing that since there is always going to be evidence of the Holy Spirit's presence, that same evidence will always be obvious to the external observer. In the strength of this (errant) they boldly proclaim who is and who isn't a "true" believer, based upon their own ability to see fruit or not.

Church discipline goes a long way to clearing out the dead wood - and we are called to do it.

Yet, I have wonder how discipline works in a FG assembly... I mean, can you imagine the church demanding you to repent of sin in order to stay a member, when you didn't have to repent of sin to become a member??

July 17, 2008 3:24 PM

Blogger jazzycat said...

James 2:14 distinguishes between true geniune faith and false dead hypocritical faith.

July 17, 2008 9:13 PM

Blogger Looker4522 said...

Hello all.

I don't think I am in general agreement with the theology here, but I won't shy away from "look"ing and considering it.

Of course, it's not likely that people will always disagree, and something Daniel said in the first half of his post turned on a light bulb in my head. I searched for and finally found the reference I was looking for and wanted to share it.

Here is an interesting quote from Zane Hodges: "Finally, we must add that there is no need to quarrel with the Reformers’ view that where there is justifying faith, works will undoubtedly exist too. This is a reasonable assumption for any Christian unless he has been converted on his death bed! But it is quite wrong to claim that a life of dedicated obedience is guaranteed by regeneration, or even that such works as there are must be visible to a human observer. God alone may be able to detect the fruits of regeneration in some of His children." (Absolutely Free, page 215)

July 17, 2008 11:04 PM

Blogger Looker4522 said...

I found a few other relevant citations. The first is from a John Hart paper at the GES site regarding the James 2 passage. Mr. Hart writes:
"A few observations should be noted at the outset. It is not denied that genuine faith will result in some change in the believer. Those holding to the Free Grace teaching do not assert that faith can exist without any change whatsoever. Most, if not all Free Grace proponents, believe that good works will inevitably result from faith, but not necessarily as visibly as we desire them to appear and not necessarily as consistently as the Lord would desire them to appear."

The second reference is from the same article, but this is a presentation of ideas from Ryrie on it. Ryrie may not agree with Hart's (& Hodges?) view of James 2, but some thinking is similar.

"Charles Ryrie, a Free Grace theologian, views James 2 as explaining a false faith that has no works. On the other hand, he understands that works may not always be evident in a believer’s life. He comments, "Every Christian will bear spiritual fruit: somewhere, sometime, somehow." Three further qualifications are added in his explanation: a believer may not always be fruitful; the fruit may not be outwardly evident; and the fruit may not be my "definition" of what fruit should be. So while the gospel debate centers on many concepts in James 2, the debate does not hang on coming to the identical conclusions in every point."

July 17, 2008 11:19 PM

Blogger mark pierson said...

The purpose of the new birth -

1)to begin the process of conformity to Christ, Romans 8:29.

2)To bring about a new creation, 2 Cor.5:17.

3)To bring about a people who experience being dead to sin and alive to God, having been once slaves of sin, and now slaves of righteousness and of God, Romans 6.

4)To bring about a people who have been transfered from the power of darkness and into the kingdom of God's Son, Col.1:13.

5)To bring about a people who who show forth His praises, who have been called out of darkness and into His marvelous light, 1 Pet.2:9.

July 18, 2008 6:56 AM


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