John 8:30-32
John 8:30-32 (Young's Literal Translation)
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
Public Domain
30As he is speaking these things, many believed in him;
31Jesus, therefore, said unto the Jews who believed in him, `If ye may remain in my word, truly my disciples ye are, and ye shall know the truth,
32and the truth shall make you free.'
John 8:30-32 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
30As He said these things, many believed in Him [trusted, relied on, and adhered to Him].
31So Jesus said to those Jews who had believed in Him, If you abide in My word [hold fast to My teachings and live in accordance with them], you are truly My disciples.
32And you will know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free.
John 8:30-32 (English Standard Version)
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of
Good News Publishers.
30As he was saying these things,(A) many believed in him.
The Truth Will Set You Free
31So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, (B) "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32and you will(C) know the truth, and the truth(D) will set you free."
John 8:30-32 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Copyright © 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003 by Holman Bible Publishers, Nashville Tennessee. All rights reserved.
Truth and Freedom 30 As He was saying these things, many believed in Him. 31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, (A) [a] you really are My disciples. 32 You will know the truth, (B) and the truth will set you free."
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As I've read this portion of scripture over and over, even in my Bibles on my bookshelf, it seems to me that these very verses indicate that believing in Christ initiates discipleship. Why do the words "remain" and "truely"(Young's), or "truely" (Amplified), or, again, "truely" (ESV), or, and check this out, ""If you continue in My word, (A) [a] you really are My disciples." (Holman Christian Standard Bible), appear in these verses? Again, "you *REALLY* are My disciples.??? Does Jesus see, as the Chaferians do, that the reception of eternal life and discipleship are two different things? If discipleship is truely separate from the reception of eternal life then don't you think that the wording of these verses is a bit odd?
Well it seems evident from this verse that the reception of eternal life ("believed in Him") and disciplship, ("remain in My word", abide in My word", "continue in My word"), are inseparable.
What say ye?
posted by mark pierson at 5:07 PM
11 Comments:
Exactly. We must consider the plain and simple meaning as being correct.
John 8:31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples,
The phrase "truly my disciples" indicates that some profess to be disciples but are not disciples. Jesus here gives the characteristics of those that are truly his disciples. This is the plain meaning and is consistent with other passages including the parable of the four soils.
wayne
November 02, 2008 6:30 PM
Wayne, what you said here: "Jesus here gives the characteristics of those that are truly his disciples."
It seems from this verse that believing in Christ results in the reception of eternal life and discipleship simultaneously. Only by theological gymnastics can one see that the two are separate. One MUST approach these verses with presuppositions in order to conclude that salvation and discipleship are separate.
To be clear: Discipleship FLOWS from genuine salvation. One IS NOT saved by being a disciple.
Now watch how some will twist what was just said.
November 03, 2008 10:57 AM
Yes. They don't seem to want to defend their complicated views here. Howeve, they are welcome and can even bring their "big guns" with them.
I have noticed when they like the plain meaning of Scripture such as John 3:16 or John 6:47 the case is closed, but when they don't like the plain meaning it takes a lengthy explanation to turn the meaning into something different.
November 03, 2008 11:19 AM
Don't forget to get out and vote.
I am not one of the big guns, but I will say that after reading John 8 about 6 times over the weekend I can't see how Jesus was possibly calling those who believed in Him 'children of the devil' or those 'who seek to kill me.'
I am sorry that you fellas think that it is doing gymnastics. I really am. I am not trying to do gymnastics, but when Jesus sayd to "those who believed in Him" that if they "continue in His word" then they are His disciples (and not just believers in Him). I don't feel it is is gymnastics to see that. It seems really plain to me.
God bless you both... and remember... it aint over till the needle does that annoying, repetitous skip at the end of the album. :~)
November 03, 2008 11:35 AM
Rose,
Why is He mentioning anything at all about discipleship here if it is wholly separate from eternal life? I do not see any indication that in the Lord's mind that we are to separate the two in our theology.
"if you continue ("As He said these things")in my word... They believed His word; or did they? Some no doubt did. Ohters, no. Continuance would be going on to REMAIN in His word. True faith is being defined for us here. Remaining in His word IS THE definition of saving faith. "Faith that does not remain is not saving.
November 03, 2008 11:45 AM
Rose,
We will be voting at 8 am in the morning. I am worried about a special election senate seat here in Mississippi. The national democratic party has been running many many ads lying about the social security issue and all those "liberal Republicans" in Washington.
Rose,
When you consider the following passage:
John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
Do you see any possibility that Jesus was referring to disciples that are not believers?
With free grace thinking we would have to believe that unbelievers that follow Christ will have the light of life, but believers who do not follow Christ will not have the light of life. Does this make sense?
November 03, 2008 12:32 PM
Also, Rose, note that I am only dealing with John 8:30-32, and not verse that follow. I'm afraid you have just leap-frogged over what I am trying to cover in my post and subsequent comments. We must consider my train of thought on these verses.
November 03, 2008 1:07 PM
It is fine to look up definitions of words in greek dictionaries ("believe into") and such; but context must also play a role in our trying to define words.
November 03, 2008 1:14 PM
Must leave for work within the hour. Bye for today.
John McCain, Sarah Palin, thanks for trying. It was a guttsy effort.
Mark
November 03, 2008 1:18 PM
Here is Ryrie's comment on John 8:31 -
"believed". Likely only a profession because of what they said in verse 33.
Ryrie Study Bible (KJV), page 1604
November 04, 2008 7:13 AM
Here is what J. Vernon McGee said about John 8:31-32 - Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is not alone. It will produce something. After a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, he will want to "continue in His Word." The proof of faith is continuing with the Savior.
THRU THE BIBLE, with J. Vernon McGee, Vol. 4, page 419
November 04, 2008 7:22 AM
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