New Books
A few weeks ago I ordered two new books from New Covenant Media.
They are:
"Abraham's Four Seeds" by John Reisinger - A Biblical Examination Of The Presuppositions Of Covenant Theology And Dispensationalism
And
"In Defense Of Jesus, The New Lawgiver", also by John Reisinger.
I'm looking forward to completing both books by mid 2009.
Wayne, I ordered two of the first mentioned book, one of them is for you. Please email me your mailing address so that I can get it off to you.
Also, I wonder who is interested in contributing to BC blog. My writing is not on a par with Wayne. My strength is more in the comments threads, not so much in writing posts. If you are interested please comment here.
Mark
posted by mark pierson at 7:43 AM
45 Comments:
I don't mind doing some writing for you. It would certainly bring forth lively debate.
December 09, 2008 8:53 AM
And I could complement my sister by writing from a Unitarian's point of view.
December 09, 2008 8:58 AM
I've often wondered what you make of Catholic services. That would be a good talking point, i.e. whether ritual or sermons or both is preferred.
Often when I am at mass and am enjoying the ritual I think of you all. I used to go to a Methodist church for a while but I fould it rather bleak, but loved the hymns.
December 09, 2008 9:12 AM
What? You didn't get a book for moi?
December 09, 2008 10:32 AM
Gayla, try a book called 'Awareness' by Antony de Mello.
December 09, 2008 10:36 AM
Hi Lorenzo, How ya doing? It's been a while...
If I may comment on your wondering about what Mark (and by extension, us) would think about Catholic services, let me offer this: ritual for ritual's sake is empty and in vain in absence of a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Participation in rituals as a means of obtaining righteousness or working for salvation is unbiblical.
Pastors/preachers/teachers are called by God to 'teach the Word'
Eph 4:11-14, which is where your sermons come into play. They are to preach the gospel of Christ, rightly divide the Word of God, and feed the sheep. So if you have someone 'preaching sermons' who is not doing these things, that too is unbiblical.
December 09, 2008 11:17 AM
Surely Gayla, ritual is extremely Biblical. A lot is talked in the Old Testament about the ritual in temples. Zachariah himself was burning incence when he was told about Elizabeth's pregnancy.
When we burn incence in the mass we say the words 'may this be received as an odour of sweetness that ascends to Thee". Isn't that beautiful?
However, I do understand what you mean about it can be empty. Personally I find that the ritual helps me in the worship. There is a sense of continuity about the mass. It has gone on since Jesus' time. The whole of the mass is based on the Last Supper. You probably know that anyway.
I said a while back that your form of worship and mine are neither right nor wrong. Just different.
As Paul himself says, "accept him whose faith is weak without passing judgement. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another eats only vegetables".
He also said that "the body is a unit though made of many parts".
Ears are no better than eyes and feet no better than hands! This is how I see you and me Gayla, just two parts of the one body.
December 09, 2008 2:00 PM
Please reread what I said:
ritual for ritual's sake is empty and in vain in absence of a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Participation in rituals as a means of obtaining righteousness or working for salvation is unbiblical.
December 09, 2008 3:27 PM
Who said anything about participating in rituals to obtain righteousness? They are your words, not mine.
Rituals, for some people, can be an aid to worship. As I keep pointing out, we are all different and we have different needs from each other.
Because you are all Calvinists, you all see eye to eye about what is right for you. Catholics would see eye to eye about what is right for them. Neither is totally right or wrong.
I love hearing about different demoninations and their style of worship. I am very ecumenical and from time to time attend different churches. I just feel more comfortable in a Catholic church because it is what I am used to, and I find it is best for me. That doesn't make Catholics superior to Calvinists or visa versa. We are all part of the one body.
December 09, 2008 4:04 PM
Mark,
Thanks so much. I have e-mailed my address....
wayne
December 09, 2008 4:07 PM
Jill and Jim,
Thanks for the offers.
Actually, the direction of this blog is headed more towards looking at Christ, our Great God and Savior, and seeing Him in His offices as Prophet, Priest and King; and the New Covenant in His blood, and what the Bible teaches concerning that. We also examine the obvious pit-falls of Dispensationalism from time to time, just for fun.
December 10, 2008 7:44 AM
Mark: does your last comment necessarily exclude Catholics?
What is dispensationilsm?
December 10, 2008 4:34 PM
Jill,
Yes it excludes Catholics. The Catholic church does not teach that one is saved by faith alone, in Christ alone. To not do so is to teach/preach damnable lies.
December 11, 2008 6:46 AM
Actually Mark, it does teach that we are saved by Jesus Christ by faith alone.
December 12, 2008 4:20 AM
Jill, what if I did not partake of the sacraments - would I still go to heaven?
December 12, 2008 8:20 AM
It really isn't for me to say who will go to heaven and who won't. I don't know what's in your heart Mark, only God does. Only God can judge, certainly not any of us.
As far as the Sacraments go, each person views this in a different way. For me it is certainly a 'prop' or help. I feel I can better face the week if I have been to mass on Sunday and partaken of the Sacrament.
For other people this is unnecessary. They can find their way through prayer, Bible reading etc. We each of us choose what is the greatest help to us.
I hope this makes sense to you. I just sometimes think there is a lot of judgement going on, and I know that I am not fit to judge anyone.
December 12, 2008 1:58 PM
Loren,
I just sometimes think there is a lot of judgement going on.....
When you make this statement, aren't you making a judgement? Are you saying that it is O.K. to judge some things, but not others?
December 13, 2008 8:45 AM
Having solid opinions and beliefs on Scripture is not only not judging, it is commanded by Scripture. God's truth is not relative, it is ABSOLUTE.
The debate should be over the truth of Scripture and not affirming the nonsense that one person's truth may not be another person's truth. When Mark, me, or anyone asks will such a belief get one to heaven; we are talking about Biblical theology. We are not talking about our personal opinion.
The Bible very clearly calls us to discern, make judgments, and to have sound doctrine and to refute those that don't. I am sure I don't have it all figured out as some points are difficult, but there are core principles that are quite clear.....
December 13, 2008 8:56 AM
I don't think I was actually making a judgement as I said 'I think ...' meaning that 'I could be wrong'.
Of course we have to make judgements on moral issues etc. but what we are specifically told NOT to do is to judge one another.
No one except God knows what is in one another's hearts and only God can judge. If anyone else tries to judge that I assume that is blasphemy.
I don't see how anyone can guarantee their place in heaven however much they preach the faith. Jesus himself said that not everyone that called him Lord is acceptable in the Kingdom and the teachings from Matthew on sheep and goats is very telling.
We will find out eventually whether He shows mercy or not for our stubborn and foolish thoughts and our intolerence towards our fellow humans who suffer.
December 13, 2008 9:54 AM
> God's truth is not relative, it is ABSOLUTE
Even that bit about a bat being a bird?
There is no such thing as "absolute truth". Truth is what you perceive it to be.
The bible can mean anything you want it to.
(Using Lorenzo's computer).
December 13, 2008 10:05 AM
Jill, I was asking you for official RC church teaching. What is the official church teaching about those who do not partake of the sacraments? Can they go to heaven?
December 13, 2008 11:12 AM
This comment has been removed by the author.
December 13, 2008 12:37 PM
The Catholic church does not insist on taking the sacraments. It is a personal choice.
At my church there are always a few people who, for various reasons, decide not to take it. At one time I didn't either, but that was for a specific reason that I don't wish to share.
Heaven is not dependent on taking the sacraments.
December 13, 2008 12:41 PM
Jill, is that official church teaching? Can you take me to official creeds to show me your response to me?
December 13, 2008 12:43 PM
No I can't take you to official sites. I am speaking on experience in the church alone.
The catholic church is very hot on prayer and intercessionary prayer. We pray for what we call the 'Holy Souls' which I know is hard for non-catholics to get to grips with as I think that prayer goes straight to God (for non-catholics). I get a bit hazy on this as I was taught to pray to saints etc. and I never really saw the point if one could pray directly to the Father.
In all my life as a catholic I have never heard that taking the sacraments is the path to heaven, or that by not taking them, one wouldn't get to heaven. I go back to the times when the mass was said in Latin and the Popes were a lot more authoritarian than they are now.
I think catholics take the sacraments regularly for the reason I stated that I do .. it helps to start the week off well and concentrates the mind on things holy.
There are so many branches of Christianity and so many ways of worship. I have always felt drawn to the contemplative orders and that particular way of worship. That is why I love the mystics so much and read their writings.
As I said in a previous posting, we are all part of the one body and no part is more or less important than any other part.
December 13, 2008 1:06 PM
Jill, I'm getting ready for work now. When I have time I shall see if I can find my First Grader's catechism book. Yes, I was born and raised catholic.
See you later.
Mark
December 13, 2008 1:12 PM
See you tomorrow Mark. Night!
December 13, 2008 2:32 PM
Loren,
You said....We will find out eventually whether He shows mercy or not for our stubborn and foolish thoughts and our intolerence towards our fellow humans who suffer ............ etc.
He has promised that he will show mercy to His elect [those who have faith in the person and work (atonement)of Jesus Christ]. All (100%) of us fall short in terms of thoughts, works, and deeds. (Rom. 3:20-26).
While we should not be judgmental with people, we are called to discern and avoid sinful activities. Some sinful activities such as murder, and stealing are against civil law. These activities are certainly judged by civil law. Likewise Scripure gives us direction on activities that are sinful such as Romans 1 and Gal. 5:19-21. When societies and people engage in these activities, we have an obligation to affirm Biblical teaching and call sin what it is. When we ourselves slip and fall into sinful practices, we should repent and turn from them.
Do you see my point here?
December 14, 2008 8:14 AM
Jim said.......... There is no such thing as "absolute truth". Truth is what you perceive it to be.
It seems you are passing the above statement as absolute truth. Thus this statement is self refuting. Therefore, it is nonsense. If you had said, there is only one absolute truth and here it is, then perhaps you would have been on solid ground!
Are you sure you practice scientific logic?
December 14, 2008 8:54 AM
Of course I see your point Jazz. But who are the elect and who are not is for God to decide and not us.
We can preach the right way of living etc. but what we can't do is make judgements about other people. That is for God to do and He makes it very plain in Scripture what he thinks about people who judge.
December 14, 2008 9:04 AM
Jill, nobody here is suggesting judging other individuals. We ARE though judging other theologies. The Roman Catholic church is apostate. They do not preach/theach salvation through faith alone in Christ alone. I'll find my catechism in a few days when I have time to look for it. Once again I'm headed for work.
December 14, 2008 1:02 PM
Loren,
You said…..We can preach the right way of living etc. but what we can't do is make judgements about other people.
However, we can proclaim what God says through the Scriptures about salvation. FOR EXAMPLE: Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. “ (John 14:6) and “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) These passages clearly mean that a person must be born again and believe in Jesus to receive the gift of eternal life. When I say that someone who does not believe in Jesus for eternal life and dies in that state is not saved, I am not being judgmental, I am just reporting what Scripture clearly teaches. Anyone, including Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu’s that die not believing in Jesus is not saved. Again, this is not judgment. It is what God says in his Holy Word, and I am just reporting it. There are many other Biblical teachings on salvation that point to justification by faith alone that I could cite, but you get the idea.
I hope you can see the difference between reporting and judging!
December 14, 2008 1:44 PM
Please, please! I have no argument with you about the words of Jesus. Mark, of course the catholic church preaches salvation through faith in Christ! It is appaling to suggest otherwise.
Some catholics believe that we can also help ourselves forward by going to mass, taking the sacraments etc. BUT the fundamental theology of the Catholic church is that Christ was born, Christ died and Christ rose again to save us from our sins.
This theology is the same in all Christian churches. The only things that differ is the manner of worship and the 'frilly bits'.
December 14, 2008 1:55 PM
Loren,
Good. Therefore, do you affirm that eternal life cannot be obtained through any non-Christian religion? IOW, a person must come to faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life and reject all the false religions of the world?
December 15, 2008 8:43 AM
I wouldn't know how to answer that Jazz. Only God can answer questions like those.
December 15, 2008 9:56 AM
loren,
I wouldn't know how to answer that Jazz. Only God can answer questions like those.
He already has in great detail in the New Trstament. The question is do you believe in God's revealed plan of redemption or not? I ask you plainly do you believe what God has said in his Holy Word, the Bible? It is Biblically clear that God came to earth and died for the sins of those who place their faith in him for salvation, and that this is the only way. Do you really believe He would have done this if there were other ways to be made right with God? The following is straight from the Bible:
Romans 3:21-26
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
December 15, 2008 12:54 PM
Jazz: you can quote the Bible at me as much as you like. I do have my own you know that I can read.
I don't know the answer to your questions. I am not as sophisticated as you are. I don't have an insight into God's mind. As Maalie will point out there are a lot of discrepancies in the Bible and if God had dictated the book I assume He would have got it right.
I just don't know. I don't have your certainty about anything. I struggle along with my doubts and misgivings but carry on the path because I feel I can do no other. There is something greater than me that leads me to mass each Sunday, that won't let me give up my path, that brings me back when I make mistakes. That's all I know.
I leave all the politics and theology to those who know the mind of God.
December 16, 2008 4:25 AM
loren,
I leave all the politics and theology to those who know the mind of God.
It is not about knowing the mind of God that no man can know. It is about believing in Jesus Christ as your redeemer. It is about belief in what the Bible says about Jesus providing redemption on the cross of Calvary for those that accept and trust in him in faith. To deny passages like John 14:6 and Acts 4:12, and believe that many man made religions offer salvation, is to insult the person and work of the triune God of the universe. Even many who claim the name of Christ do not have eternal life in their future as Jesus says directly in Matthew 7:21-23.
I am perfectly aware that relativism and pluralism is pervasive in our day and many, even in the Christian Church, affirm many ways and other non-Christian religions that one can be made right with God. However, when anyone does this they are letting something else trump the Holy Bible. Nowhere in the Old or New Testament is there any passage that affirms this is possible. On the contrary, the Bible is full of passages that deny and condemn other religions.
The choice is quite simply to believe what the Bible reports or to believe what the men who are controlled by the Spirit of the age claim. As for me I am going to believe the Bible and not worry about offending those who want to deny clear Biblical teaching. It is not a matter of taking the Bible too literally, but believing in the story of human redemption that is taught from Genesis through Revelation.
To reject the Bible as the word of God based on Maalie or anyone else is quite simply to undercut and deny any Christian theology whatsoever. Once you accept that premise, there is no foundation whatsoever to stand on............
December 16, 2008 9:32 AM
Blimey Jazz, you do like to twist my words around don't you?
I can't understand what you are arguing about here. Sometimes it seems to me that you like to argue for the sake of arguing and proving a point that doesn't need proving.
I tell you, I am a simple soul and I don't understand the mind of God. I believe in a merciful and compassionate Father. Who you believe in, is your business and only concerns you.
You quote God's mind as quotes from the Bible. The Bible was written by man, with the infallibility of man. Don't you ever just listen in the quietness, just listen to the murmerings of your heart?
December 16, 2008 10:52 AM
loren,
I can't understand what you are arguing about here.
I am proclaiming the Biblical gospel in hopes that you will believe.
You quote God's mind as quotes from the Bible. The Bible was written by man, with the infallibility of man.
Paul would disagree with you. The same Paul that the Catholic Church calls St. Paul. The Bible does reveal much about God's mind as it is the revealed word of God 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, If you believe the Bible is infallible then you have no foundation to believe anything.
Don't you ever just listen in the quietness, just listen to the murmerings of your heart?
Yes, but I don't let the murmerings of my heart trump God's word! Jim Jones listened to the murmerings of his heart when he had over 900 followers commit suicide in the 1970's.
Your choice is to believe your heart or the Holy Bible
December 16, 2008 12:04 PM
Jazz, you have taken it upon yourself to believe that I don't believe. Haven't you been reading my comments?
I actually said that man was infallible.
December 16, 2008 12:39 PM
Mark,
I would be honored to become a part of your blog. I think I would be of great benefit to your blog!
Let me know:
AGDAROSA@HOTMAIL.COM
blessings,
Antonio
December 16, 2008 11:28 PM
Loren,
When you would not affirm Jesus as the onl way by which man could be saved from the wrath of God, it did cast doubt as to exactly what you do believe.
Can you give me an example of an infallible man other than Jesus Christ who was and is fully man and fully God?
December 17, 2008 8:35 AM
No I can't Jazz. Jesus is the only infallible man. But the Bible wasn't written by Jesus.
December 17, 2008 11:29 AM
Antonio,
that would put this blog into the ratings stratosphere. I might actually consider this.
December 17, 2008 11:31 AM
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