LOOKING TO PRAISE AND WORSHIP JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. 18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

Thursday, December 11, 2008

Terry Rayburn Nails It

you can find him in the discussion here...http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2008/12/soporific-scourge-of-nomicophobia.html#links

...I agree there should be awareness and repentance upon hearing commands that one is not following. But I speak of that "feeling" which comes over Christians when they hear "convicting" preaching -- a feeling expressed within as, "Oh, yes, what a low-down scummy worm I am! Every command Pastor preaches just proves it. I GOTTA pull up my bootstraps and perform better! Surely God must be angry at me. I've confessed that sin a thousand times! I know...I'll try HARDER! Go ahead, Pastor, whip me, beat me. Oh how I deserve it. But I'll do better...['No you won't', the enemy interjects, 'you know better than that']...yes I WILL! Blah, blah, blah."

And so the "convicted" one puts himself on the ground of Law, instead of grace, which Law is the very *strength* of sin (1 Cor. 15:56). He thereby quenches the Holy Spirit and compounds his problem.

The preacher of grace should constantly short-circuit that destructive thinking with the twin pillars of the Radical Grace and the New Creation Identity of the New Covenant.

So that the sheep realize that although they once were "Sinners in the hands of an angry God", they are no longer. Now they are Saints in the hands of a loving Friend. A Friend Who is transcendent, yet indwelling us; awesomely holy, yet satisfied through Christ; having a zeal for His Law, yet seeing it fulfilled in the Son;angry with the wicked, yet fully accepting His children in the Beloved;expressing His righteous heart in commandments, yet having unilaterally forgiven the breaking of them through the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, so that there is NO condemnation to him who is in Christ Jesus.

They will follow a Friend like that.

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22 Comments:

Blogger Daniel said...

I really liked what Terry had to say there too. I was tracking with that discussion, and even drafted a few comments along the same lines.

My concern in that discussion was that while obedience was being bandied about, the motive for obedience was being assumed, or ignored. If one does the required thing for the wrong reason, has he done a good thing? Is this what God calls us to, an external conformity that lacks an internal conformity?

The danger in preaching obedience is that it can quickly turn into preaching about outside-of-the-cup polishing, rather than inside-of-the-cup cleansing.

If one is railing against those who claim to be Christians but are entirely disobedient and unrepentant, they sometimes forget to include the role and place of grace in their discussion. Terry was faithful, I think, in keeping that straight.

December 11, 2008 11:03 AM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

Terry's comments were very good, and I think Daniel's comment here is right on!

It is snowing here in Mississippi. I will have to shovel real fast before it melts.

December 11, 2008 11:36 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Back in the early days of my walk I was subject to teachers that were quick to point out all my failings. I was constantly reminded that I did not pray enough, did not witness for Christ enough, did not read or study my Bible enough, did not fast enough, was watching too much TV, was not in church enough, was not loving the brethren as I ought...

I went to church 3 times a week and every time I went I was subjected to this constant harangue. There was NEVER any teaching about who I was in Christ - just constant reminding me that I was a failure. I began to hate being a Christian. All I was was a failure. The Lord was disappointed with me, so I thought.

Then came a radio teacher with a different approach. His name? Malcome Smith. No, I don't agree with everything he teaches; but what a refreshing ministry he has. I haven't listened to him in about 30 years. But the impact he made on me was long lasting.

NOW I TELL EVER CHRISTIAN TO LOOK TO CHRIST!!!

Yes, the word is for reproof, rebuke, correction, and instruction in righteousness. Yes there should be confession and repentance from sin in the believer's life - but this all should be done with your eye on Christ and His power to change you. Meditate on Him, and His Spirit will transform you into His image.

December 11, 2008 1:19 PM

 
Blogger Daniel said...

I went to church 3 times a week and every time I went I was subjected to this constant harangue. There was NEVER any teaching about who I was in Christ - just constant reminding me that I was a failure. I began to hate being a Christian. All I was was a failure. The Lord was disappointed with me, so I thought.

It is impossible to trust the Lord for good, when we are only made certain of his wrath. It is so important to teach Christ, Christ, Christ! We should be demanding it from the pews, and expecting it from the pulpits. We are not convinced by good sermons any more than we are convinced by good arguments - no one argues another person into the kingdom - we enter the kingdom when we come face to face (as it were) with Christ. The goal of our instruction is the true knowledge of Christ - anything less is just beating around the bush, and no matter how well intentioned it may be - and no matter that the Lord can salvage any wreck - we still are making very poor use of the time.

Thanks for that word Mark.

December 11, 2008 2:50 PM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Daniel, thanks!

I say to all: LOOK TO CHRIST
LOKK TO CHRIST
LOOK TO CHRIST

December 12, 2008 8:14 AM

 
Blogger Rose~ said...

Mark,
What a neat coincidence! I was saying LOOK TO CHRIST today as well!

December 12, 2008 1:54 PM

 
Blogger Ten Cent said...

I'll join in and say, "Look to Christ" too.

Merry Christmas,
Ten Cent

December 12, 2008 5:03 PM

 
Blogger goe said...

Mark,

I'm a little confused because you seem to be saying the same thing I was trying to say awhile back on this blog. I think what you're saying here is great! I bet Zane would give a hearty AMEN as well. This is what he was always trying to get across to people. Maybe you and I are not as far apart as it seems sometimes? Some of it might be a misunderstanding because of the differing emphasis we place on certain things-you think?

Gary

December 12, 2008 5:25 PM

 
Blogger jazzycat said...

goe,
Do you like our (MSU) new coach?

I am not confused by Mark's comment at all. We have both been affirming grace alone, by faith alone in Christ alone. The difference is that we believe in a regeneration with power that so changes the heart that believers become new creations in Christ. This is what the Bible clearly teaches.

You and I certainly agree on justification by faith alone.

December 12, 2008 9:55 PM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Ten Cent - great to see you here! Merry Christmas to you too!

December 12, 2008 11:59 PM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Rose, thanks for gracing my blog with your comments! I'm honored by your visits!

December 13, 2008 12:01 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Gary, My carpel tunnel often prevents me from fully expressing my thoughts. Over the next month I hope to present my views; but it'll have to be piece-meal, a little at a time because typing is a major hurdle for me.

Suffice it to say that I no longer agree with MacArthur on 2 Cor.13:5 - those Corinthians were told to examine themselves, yes, but it was to vindicate Paul's ministry amongst them. I believe that most of one's assurance comes from the Word. I do believe also that the Spirit bears witness with our spirit, so that we know that we know that we are children of God.

More later as my wife wants me to turn off the lights.
Mark

December 13, 2008 12:12 AM

 
Blogger goe said...

Jazzycat,

From what I know, I like Dan Mullen. I think we have reason to be excited. But you know how that goes--only time will tell. I heard him on the radio today and he seems to have a good philosophy and a lot of drive to win. I hear he is a great recruiter too. I hope he can hang on to Russell, the QB from Meridian. That would help a lot, but I heard that Saban is making a big push to get him at Alabama. Right now, we only have 2 QB's, and 1 is a walk-on. Have you seen the new helmets? It's back to maroon again. As bad as the offense has been, it will be a major improvement if we can just make some first downs next year. Have you ever seen an offense so bad?

I believe in the power of regeneration and the new creation also. From what I can tell, I think our biggest area of difference is concerning the "inevitability" of progressive sanctification. I remember that even you acknowledged that there can be exceptions like deathbed conversions or other special circumstances where a believer might not have good works or fruit. I've also wondered about believers who lived hundreds of years ago when copies of the bible were extremely scarce. How did they grow in sanctification without having the scriptures like we have it today? There are even some believers in the world today who don't have bibles, though it's much less common than it would have been in something like 500 A.D. for example. I also believe that the bible teaches that it is possible for a believer to grieve the spirit (Eph. 4:30), quench the Spirit (1 Thess. 5:19), and even gradually become hardened by the "deceitfulness of sin" (Heb. 3:12-19; 1 Cor. 9:24-10:13). While I agree with you that God's "divine power has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness"(2 Pet.1:3), there are warnings and exhortations on almost every page of scripture that, if not heeded by the believer (1 Cor. 10:12, 2 Pet. 3:17), can prevent the sanctification process from progressing as God intended. There are several places in scripture that tell us that this can even result in premature physical death, and shame, loss and rebuke at the judgement seat of Christ. I just don't see how progressive sanctification can be seen as "inevitable" if we are to take these warnings in scripture seriously. "Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." There is just no way that I can read 1 Cor. 9:24-10:13 and think that Paul was warning them of something that is not a real possibility. I believe that apart from special circumstances (like the ones you mentioned), and given enough time, every believer will have some works or fruit. But that is different from saying that all believers will inevitably persevere to the end in progressive sanctification, or even that those believers who do persevere will all attain the same degree of sanctification and reward at the judgement seat.

Gary

December 13, 2008 12:18 AM

 
Blogger goe said...

Mark and Jazzycat,

I hope you will check out the link that Rose has for the LS sermon. I don't think either of you would agree with the way this man preaches the "gospel"--especially in light of what you are saying about Terry Rayburn's comments. I wholeheartedly agree with Terry's feelings about this kind of preaching. The sermon that Rose links to would seem to be in that category and it's what I heard a lot of when I was young. I'm glad to hear you feel the same.

Gary

December 13, 2008 1:40 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Gary, first off, Eph. 4:30 - yes a Christian can grieve the Spirit, but there is nothing said in that verse that such can go on indefinitly. God's chastenings and Christ's intercedings, along with God the Holy Spirit's intercedings would have to be considered here too. That and the new nature's desire to press on by coming to a place of confession and repentance.

1 Thess. 5:19 - the same can be said here. There is nothing in this verse to suggest a permanent condition; especially when what I said in the above is true.

Heb. 3:12-19 - Hebrews was written to a people, some of whom were considering returning to Judaissm as the trials of Christianity were intensifying. That portion you mention "lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God", and from there the reader is asked to consider the faithless conduct of the unbelieving portion of the Israelites during the exodus.

December 13, 2008 10:48 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Next, 1 Cor. 9:24-10:13 - these are warings for us "upon whom the ends of the ages have come. But, again there is nothing here to suggest a permanent falling away. Chastening, though, is alway efficatious. See Hebrews 12:3-11. It always "yields the peacable fruit of righteousness". Can death do that? Therefore the death amongst the Corintians was not so much chastening as a warning to those around them. The sickness before death would have been a time of cofession and repentance.

December 13, 2008 10:57 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

2 Peter 3:17 - again chastening in the life is to be considered here. There is no suggestion of permanence here; only a warning to keep you from entering into a position where you grieve the indwelling Holy Spirit, and could be chastened.

December 13, 2008 11:02 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

The Lord Himself taught that some would yield 30, some 60, and some 100, Mark 4:8. The 30 and 60 would be those who suffer loss at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Rebuke? Where is that taught?

December 13, 2008 11:09 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Let us also remember that in the New Covenant comunity "all know" God, as opposed to the Old Covenant community that was comprised of both believers and unbelievers.

December 13, 2008 11:19 AM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

December 13, 2008 12:56 PM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

Gary,
Paul Washer does not speak for all L/S. You yourself acknowledge the different shades of L/S.

I don't agree with Paul Washer myself, but I think he is reacting against Chafer's dispensational soteriology. In taking repentance out of the arena of the message to the lost; and also teaching that some of Christ's teachings are for some future millenium Chafer changed the whole of the very definition of what it means to be a Christian. The Biblical concept of the believer being a temple of God, and that that "temple" was involved in a continual change into Christ's likeness is done great damage by the implicatuions of Chafer's "carnal Christian" notion.

December 13, 2008 12:57 PM

 
Blogger mark pierson said...

In my earlier comment I got distracted. The following is the way it should read...

Heb. 3:12-19 - Hebrews was written to a people, some of whom were considering returning to Judaissm as the trials of Christianity were intensifying. That portion you mention "lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God", and from there the reader is asked to consider the faithless conduct of the unbelieving portion of the Israelites during the exodus. Here it is obvious that true believers are not in view here. The false professors were about to be exposed by their "evil heart of unbelief". Not a description of a true believer, as were Joshua and Caleb. The language throughout that portion of scripture is such that God would never use on His saints.

December 13, 2008 1:05 PM

 

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